I'm toying around with the cleric class lately and I tried to build one over the dispel cap, able to pierce SR (monks apart, of course), with a high save DC, focusing (guess what?) on implosion Melee presence is granted by divine power+buffs (that's why BAB was intentionally kept at 25). Fighter was chosen to get martial weapon right from the start +WS/EWS.CoT for save boosting and bonus feats (foregoing the CHA related special abilities). Starting STR could be lower but I wanted to have some carrying capacity without buffs and to make earlier lvls easier. Domains were chosen for the extra spells of course(mage armor, barkskin help at lower lvls, stoneskin, icestorm and creeping doom are always handy) Expertise/Improved expertise to pump up AC while casting spells (even on PWs where they switch it off while casting exp deactivates after you cast not before or during eh-eh...just reactivate it immediately after casting and your AC will always be +5/10).
Now a couple of questions: 1) Is it really worthwhile to get over the SR cap of 32? Those two feats I use up to grant me enough penetration could be spent on skills like KD/IKD or blind fighting, called shot or anything else to round up the build and maybe I could just focus on no SR spells 2) Greater ruin or Hellball? 3) How would the build fare in PvP?
Here's the build: Cleric 26/ CoT 10/Fighter 4 Human, any non-evil
STR 12 CON 14 DEX 12 INT 14 WIS 16 (34) CHA 8
HP: 460 SkP: 215
BAB: 25 AB: 30 AC: 17
DC: 22+Spell Lvl DC Evocation: 34+Spell Lvl DC Implosion: 46 (52 with capped WIS!!!) SP: 32
SAVES (vs Spells) For 31 (40) Ref 22 (31) Will 38 (47)
1 Cleric 1 Spell Penetration, Expertise, Domains:Magic,Plant 2 Fighter 1 WF 3 Cleric 2 Greater SP 4 Fighter 2 Improved Expertise, WIS (WIS 17) 5 Cleric 3 6 Cleric 4 Extend Spell 7 Cleric 5 8 Cleric 6 WIS (WIS 18) 9 Cleric 7 Empower Spell 10 Cleric 8 11 Cleric 9 12 Cleric 10 SF: Evocation, WIS (WIS 19) 13 Cleric 11 14 Cleric 12 15 Cleric 13 GSF:Evocation 16 Cleric 14 WIS (WIS 20) 17 Cleric 15 18 Cleric 16 Toughness 19 Cleric 17 20 Cleric 18 WIS (WIS 21) 21 CoT 1 EWF 22 CoT 2 Great WIS I (WIS 22) 23 Fighter 3 24 Fighter 4 WS, EWS, WIS (WIS 23) 25 Cleric 19 26 Cleric 20 27 Cleric 21 ES: Greater Ruin or EP 28 Cleric 22 WIS (WIS 24) 29 CoT 3 30 Cleric 23 EP or ES: Hellball, ESF: Evocation 31 CoT 4 Great WIS II (WIS 25) 32 Cleric 24 WIS (WIS 26) 33 CoT 5 Great WIS III (WIS 27) 34 CoT 6 Great WIS IV (WIS 28 ) 35 CoT 7 36 CoT 8 Great WIS V, Great WIS VI, WIS (WIS 31) 37 Cleric 25 38 CoT 9 39 CoT 10 Great WIS VII, Great WIS VIII (WIS 33) 40 Cleric 26 AS, WIS (WIS 34)
What do you think of the build? Any suggestion/advice to offer to improve it? Feats to add or to remove, or feat progression to be changed or lvling up to be changed or anything that comes to your mind?
Thanks in advance for your feedback Cheers, Kail _________________ Dilegua notte Tramontate stelle Tramontate stelle All'alba vinceṛ Vinceṛ Vinceṛ
Edited By Kail Pendragon on 12/10/05 14:39
I built it in my lvler module and I realized my evocation spells DC is lower than I thought. 6 points lower. I came to the conclusion that the various SF do not stack, can anyone confirm it? Bah, implosion DC is a "mere" 40 now, 46 with capped WIS. I'm disappointed I though SF boni were meant to stack
Spell DC = 10 + Spell Level + Casting Ability Modifier + Bonus Feats
so based on WIS of 34 (46 capped) would give 18
DC = 10 + 9 + 18 + 6 = 43
With Implosion quirk of +3 = 46
The only way to get this higher is to max WIS, achieving a base of 38 by 40th level and receiving 12 points bonus through items or buffs.
This would in turn give you a max of 48.
Sadly Spell Focus feats do not stack, the max is 6 points after Epic.
Edited By I...Samphus on 12/11/05 22:48
Thanks for the info, 46 base DC was too good to be true
What about spell penetration feats, do they stack? I took SP and GSP, do I get +4 or +6 penetration?
Thanks for the info, 46 base DC was too good to be true
What about spell penetration feats, do they stack? I took SP and GSP, do I get +4 or +6 penetration?
They work the same as the Spell Focus feats. i.e. the next one up overrides the previous. Therefore you'd get +4 with GSP, not +6. _________________ Wave upon wave of demented avengers marched cheerfully out of obscurity into the dream...
The max possible spell save DC is 48 - and it's only achievable with Implosion's save DC increase, base wis 38, epic focus evocation, and cap-buffed wisdom. _________________ Experience is the mother of good judgement; bad judgement is the father of experience.
Thanks all for clarifying the non-stacking nature of the SF/SP feats. I can still reach 46 DC with capped wisdom which is not that bad, eh-eh (altough 52 would have been waaaay better). Pity clerics do not get owl's insight. This point cleared, what do you think of other aspects of the build?
Personally I am not sure of the benefits that Fighter brings to the mix. I find generally that I can live without WS and EWS on account of the buffing ability that a cleric brings through Darkfire, GWS and so on.
I would give some thought to Bard perhaps to maximise the benefit of Tumble (AC +4 as it is now a class skill) and consider taking Lingering/ Curse Song. Consider also swapping Heal for Taunt
Spell Penetration I wouldn't bother with (again personally), taking Wpn Prof Martial or Exotic instead.
Improved Critical could be slipped in instead of GSP.
Take some CoT levels before 20th to boost AB - maybe - depends on how high you want your base WIS.
Maybe go Dwarf instead.
Not sure about Hellball or Greater Ruin either mind you.
Personally I am not sure of the benefits that Fighter brings to the mix. I find generally that I can live without WS and EWS on account of the buffing ability that a cleric brings through Darkfire, GWS and so on.
I would give some thought to Bard perhaps to maximise the benefit of Tumble (AC +4 as it is now a class skill) and consider taking Lingering/ Curse Song. Consider also swapping Heal for Taunt
Martial weapons for free and 1 feat plus WS/EWS. Sure, given the cleric buffs maybe one could drop fighter altogether and get a class with tumble. 3rd lvl bard song is not that big deal though +1AB/+2 DMG (WS/EWS=+6DMG), I'd rather get rogue personally and probably get trickery domain(+2d6 sneaks=7DMG on average)...taunt is a tempting skill, though.
Quote: Spell Penetration I wouldn't bother with (again personally), taking Wpn Prof Martial or Exotic instead.
Why no SP? I'm no expert on clerics so I'd like to know why you consider it not useful
Quote: Improved Critical could be slipped in instead of GSP.
IC is a feat I missed. I thought of getting WF: scimitar (or rapier) to compensate the lack of IC.
Quote: Take some CoT levels before 20th to boost AB - maybe - depends on how high you want your base WIS.
I kept BAB 15 at 20th lvl intentionally to exploit divine power: this way I get my 4th attack at full AB. Besides that I wanted to pump WIS as much as possible.
Quote: Maybe go Dwarf instead.
Eh-eh, I already have a dwarf version, couldn't resist making one
Quote: Not sure about Hellball or Greater Ruin either mind you.
Just some thoughts
I realized that cleric epic spells are not realy worth the feat when you are already tight on them. I agree with you, and I'll drop the epic spell for something else.
Thanks for the feedback! _________________ Dilegua notte Tramontate stelle Tramontate stelle All'alba vinceṛ Vinceṛ Vinceṛ
