Before anyone gives any advice, please know the following:
It is a level 30 server Highest weapon/armour enhancment is +2 Haste is not an item property Shadowdancer is dissalowed RDD requires 10 levels of Sorceror or Bard Leveling is hard There are no immunities granted by items 3 Levels are required for the class to take effect (i.e. No 1 Level of Monk for cheese, need 3 Levels)
With this in mind, I really, REALLY want a Dragon Druid. He can either be Human, Elf, or Half-Elf or any subrace that stems from one of those races. He needs to be good for PvP, preferably playable even at low level though I am willing to have a **** character if it is worth it by level 30. I would like him to have good AC and AB, buffs would be nice...though trully I am open to any suggestions if they are worth while.
I am not very good with character creation so if you post, please post begining and ending stats as well as all details that you can...otherwise the build you suggest will do nothing but confuse me because I'm new to this stuff.
Thanks for anything you can give me, either message me or post here, I dont care.
Edited By Zoodleton on 03/13/06 04:29
I devised two ways to go,both with DS at 30th lvl. DS at 28th lvl is possible but it requires Druid 24/CoT 4 leaving just two free lvls which cannot be given to monk according to the rules of your server.
The first stops druid at 14th lvl to get more CoT in Epic for one bonus feat to be spent on something else than GrWIS (Armor skin was my choice). You can move the 6th monk lvl at 27th lvl to set tumble at 30 for +1 AC, at the cost of later KD/IKD. 4 CoT lvls preepic for the full attack schedule. The Disarm/ID line can be nice, your dragon claws count as huge weapons and you get to get the disarmed weapon in your inventory.
Druid(14), Champion of Torm(10), Monk(6) Human, LN
LVLUP GUIDE 01: Druid(1): Expertise, Extend Spell 02: Druid(2) 03: Monk(1): Lightning Reflexes or Disarm, {Cleave, Evasion, Improved Unarmed Strike, Stunning Fist} 04: Druid(3): WIS+1, (WIS=19) 05: Druid(4) 06: Druid(5): Zen Archery 07: Monk(2): {Deflect Arrows} 08: Druid(6): WIS+1, (WIS=20) 09: Druid(7): Empower Spell 10: Druid(8) 11: Druid(9) 12: Monk(3): WIS+1, Weapon Focus: Scimitar, (WIS=21) 13: Champion of Torm(1) 14: Champion of Torm(2): Improved Critical: Unarmed 15: Druid(10): Blind Fight 16: Druid(11): WIS+1, (WIS=22) 17: Monk(4) 18: Champion of Torm(3): Toughness, {Smite Evil} 19: Champion of Torm(4): Improved Expertise or Improved Disarm 20: Druid(12): WIS+1, (WIS=23) 21: Monk(5): Armor Skin 22: Monk(6): {Knockdown, Improved Knockdown} 23: Druid(13) 24: Champion of Torm(5): WIS+1, Great Wisdom I, (WIS=25) 25: Champion of Torm(6): Great Wisdom II, (WIS=26) 26: Champion of Torm(7) 27: Champion of Torm(8): Great Wisdom III, Great Wisdom IV, (WIS=28) 28: Champion of Torm(9): WIS+1, (WIS=29) 29: Champion of Torm(10): Great Wisdom V, (WIS=30) 30: Druid(14): Dragon Shape
The second build, gets two more druid lvls for 8th lvl spells (and spell slots... extended AoV) and Elemental Shapes. Again the 6th Monk lvl can be moved at 27th lvl for +1 AC at the cost of later KD/IKD. Same as above, but for more druid and no Armor skin.
LVLUP GUIDE 01: Druid(1): Expertise, Extend Spell 02: Druid(2) 03: Monk(1): Lightning Reflexes or Disarm, {Cleave, Evasion, Improved Unarmed Strike, Stunning Fist} 04: Druid(3): WIS+1, (WIS=19) 05: Druid(4) 06: Druid(5): Zen Archery 07: Monk(2): {Deflect Arrows} 08: Druid(6): WIS+1, (WIS=20) 09: Druid(7): Empower Spell 10: Druid(8) 11: Druid(9) 12: Monk(3): WIS+1, Weapon Focus: Scimitar, (WIS=21) 13: Champion of Torm(1) 14: Champion of Torm(2): Improved Critical: Unarmed 15: Druid(10): Blind Fight 16: Druid(11): WIS+1, (WIS=22) 17: Monk(4) 18: Champion of Torm(3): Toughness, {Smite Evil} 19: Champion of Torm(4): Improved Expertise or Improved Disarm 20: Druid(12): WIS+1, (WIS=23) 21: Monk(5): Great Wisdom I, (WIS=24) 22: Monk(6): {Knockdown, Improved Knockdown} 23: Druid(13) 24: Druid(14): WIS+1, Great Wisdom II, (WIS=26) 25: Druid(15) 26: Champion of Torm(5) 27: Champion of Torm(6): Great Wisdom III, Great Wisdom IV, (WIS=28) 28: Champion of Torm(7): WIS+1, (WIS=29) 29: Champion of Torm(8): Great Wisdom V, (WIS=30) 30: Druid(16): Dragon Shape
For any question, fell free to ask here or PM me.
Cheers, Kail _________________ Wait for me Dragon, we'll meet in the sky By fire and magic, I'm sworn Hell is calling, we cannot be denied Fly to the blackness of the Storm
Before anyone gives any advice, please know the following:
It is a level 30 server Highest weapon/armour enhancment is +2 Haste is not an item property Shadowdancer is dissalowed RDD requires 10 levels of Sorceror or Bard Leveling is hard There are no immunities granted by items 3 Levels are required for the class to take effect (i.e. No 1 Level of Monk for cheese, need 3 Levels)
With this in mind, I really, REALLY want a Dragon Druid. He can either be Human, Elf, or Half-Elf or any subrace that stems from one of those races. He needs to be good for PvP, preferably playable even at low level though I am willing to have a **** character if it is worth it by level 30. I would like him to have good AC and AB, buffs would be nice...though trully I am open to any suggestions if they are worth while.
Given that levelling is hard, I wouldn't recommend going for DS. The earliest possible is level 28, and to make it decent you will want to aim for level 30 as Kail suggested. I suspect you will play for a long time with a sub-optimal character, and when you finally get DS you may get bored with it quickly.
With such low magic, I would suggest either a caster (Cleric's are actually quite good on low-magic servers, the ability to self-buff to +20 is huge when items are only +2), or a Fighter/Rogue (no sneak immunities means the sneak damage will be a BIG advantage). You will have a much easier time for most of the build that way.
TM
Alright, thanks for the suggestions...I think I will work for the Dragon Shape because not only does it seem potent but the server is an RP server and Dragons would be very fun to RP as.
Just so I know, what attributes shift over in Dragon Form? Does wisdom affect them once in Dragon Form? Or are all of their stats pre-defined?
STR 48 DEX 36 CON 32
INT, WIS, CHA stay the same.
Any enhancement bonus you have on stats, stays; f.e. if you cast AoV, empowered Bull's strength and Blood Frenzy you will be capping your STR at +12 (STR 60 in DS) and Owl's Insight will set your WIS at +7/+8 which will translate directly in +3/+4 to AC thanks to monk lvls.
You also get DR 40/+6, 20 MR, mind/paralysis/sneak attack immunity, true seeing, +20 dodge AC, +6 dragon claws and fire/electricity/acid immunity according to the dragon colour chosen.
Cheers, Kail _________________ Wait for me Dragon, we'll meet in the sky By fire and magic, I'm sworn Hell is calling, we cannot be denied Fly to the blackness of the Storm
We must die to be reborn!
Thanks for the builds Kail, as well as the added information. I think I am going to use the build with the extra 2 druid levels for spells (slightly modified maybe)...but out of curiosity, what is the AB and AC, fully buffed and in Dragon Form, of the build with the 2 extra druid levels?
And if my strength is 10 in human form and it is 48 in dragon form, would it be any different if it was 18 in human form? Would dragon form then have 56 strength?
And do you recommend this build as a good one for PvP?
Edited By Zoodleton on 03/13/06 19:44
UNBUFFED DRAGON
STR 48 DEX 36 CON 32 WIS 30 HP: 716 AC (naked): 56/57 (10 base +5/+6 tumble ranks +10 WIS bonus +13 DEX bonus +20 dragon dodge bonus -2 due to huge size), shows 58,59 on the sheet AB: 44 ( 21 BAB +19 STR bonus +6 dragon claws -2 due to huge size), shows 40 on the sheet DR 40/+6 MR 20 Immune to mind affecting effects, paralysis and sneak attacks Fort: 36 Ref: 36(evasion) Will: 32
BUFFED DRAGON
STR 60 DEX 40 CON 38 WIS 38 HP: 836 AC (naked): 66/67, shows 64/65 on the sheet AB: 50, shows 46 on the sheet DR 40/+6 MR 28 Immune to mind affecting effects, paralysis and sneak attacks Fort: 39 Ref: 38 (evasion) Will: 37
Buffs affecting AB/AC (directly or undirectly) are:
Various elemental protections: endure/resist elements, protection from the elements, energy buffer Spell Resistance Regenerate Death Ward Camouflage One with the Land (pump up those hide/MS skills, you've got the points to do it) Buffs for your animal companion/summoned creature
It doesn't matter what's your base STR score before shapeshifting, it will always end up as 48 when in dragon shape - enhancements from spells get counted though (so if you have 16 STR because you casted on yourself Bull's stregth you'll end up with 54 STR as a dragon, assuming your base STR score is 10).
I don't do PvP (yet ) so I cannot answer your last question. But I agree with TM that if lvling is real hard a cleric with trickery and war domain might be an easier choice. You'll end up buffing yourself at +26 AB(+20 AB, +12 STR for another +6 AB) and out of the wazoo AC. Cleric 26/Monk 4 maybe?
Cheers, Kail _________________ Wait for me Dragon, we'll meet in the sky By fire and magic, I'm sworn Hell is calling, we cannot be denied Fly to the blackness of the Storm
We must die to be reborn!
Gah! Um, Kail...I just found out that a prerequisit for Dragon Shape is 18 levels in Druid because the feat requires Wildshape 6 times a day, and that is an 18th level ability I think. What should be substituded for those extra 2 levels?
No, 14 levels are enough, just check the builds, we all use 14 as minimum (of course, don't ask me why, Kail told me), 100% tested, 14 is the minimum, test it yourself using the console if you don't believe me.
Sure, Kail said something wrong about a dragon, would be nice for a change, nah, you're cool man.
I am dead serious, go look at the feat...it says
Presrequisits: Wisdom 30, Wildshape 6 times a day (obviously from druid)
To get 6, you need 18 levels I am positive of that. Maybe multi-classing with CoT and Monk somehow works around that, but I'm 100% sure that thats what the feat says.
Presrequisits: Wisdom 30, Wildshape 6 times a day (obviously from druid)
To get 6, you need 18 levels I am positive of that. Maybe multi-classing with CoT and Monk somehow works around that, but I'm 100% sure that thats what the feat says.
That's not the point, though. There are tons of builds that use Druid 14 for Dragon, you think none of them has tested if it works? It goes like this, the descriition is wrong. You need wildsahpe 5 times a day. _________________
Quote: Posted 03/06/06 18:56:45 (GMT) -- FinneousPJ Trollborn Asgardian by the master of the Norse legends, Grimnir himself!
Indeed there are many mistakes both in the manual and in the Grimoire. Not even the Wiki is free of mistakes, but at least those are easy to correct.
Check NWN Wiki, it's usually the most accurate of the sources.
The Grimoire is also a good source of information, but double check requirements with the Wiki since it contains many errors. For example, Epic Dodge does not need neither the dodge feat, neither 30 ranks in tumble (just 1) altough both the manual and the grimoire state so.
Regarding DS, Wildshape 5/day (Druid 14) or Greater Wildshape IV (Shifter 10), WIS 30, epic character and lvling up as a druid/shifter when taking the DS feat is all you need.
Cheers, Kail _________________ Wait for me Dragon, we'll meet in the sky By fire and magic, I'm sworn Hell is calling, we cannot be denied Fly to the blackness of the Storm
We must die to be reborn!
Alright, one more question...you took Weapon Focus Scimitar when Stregnth and Dex are 10, why not put it to longbow since you have Zen Archery, or even fists since there are monk levels and the dragon fights unarmed anyways, or do fists not count as melee weapons for CoT levels?
WF: Unarmed doesn't work for DS, Unarmed do not count as a melee weapon for CoT/WM, and yes, you need to focus in a melee weapon before you can level up as CoT, so no Longbow for you. Furthermore I don't think the build is proficient with a Longbow until CoT is added. _________________ The world is grey, the mountain's old The forge's fire is ashen and cold No harp is wrung, no hammer falls The darkness dwells in Druin's halls...
I noticed that in the builds, Improved Critical:Unarmed was taken...is that because it carries over to DS? Otherwise I see no purpose, it would be better spent in a ranged weapon using Zen Archery.
Yes, I hear it works. _________________ The world is grey, the mountain's old The forge's fire is ashen and cold No harp is wrung, no hammer falls The darkness dwells in Druin's halls...
~ Summoning - Khazad-Dúm
IC: unarmed does carry over indeed. Overwhelming Critical does carry over too, but not Dev Crit. Epic prowess normally applies. Weapon finesse does not, but will with the next patch (1.67). WF/EWF and WS/EWS unarmed, as said, do not carry over (let's hope for a fix in 1.68).
I chose WF: scimitar but you can pick any melee weapon that you are proficient with. After all it's just to meet CoT prerequisites (still, scimitar is a good choice after all).
Cheers, Kail _________________ Wait for me Dragon, we'll meet in the sky By fire and magic, I'm sworn Hell is calling, we cannot be denied Fly to the blackness of the Storm
We must die to be reborn!
Quote: I noticed that in the builds, Improved Critical:Unarmed was taken...is that because it carries over to DS? Otherwise I see no purpose, it would be better spent in a ranged weapon using Zen Archery.
Besides IC working as it was just explained (for the feat count), there's not much use in using a bow if you have DS, dragons fight unarmed, weapons are completely off question, and your stats are way better in dragon shape than regular, so there's no use in Zen Archery (from my point of view).
Edited By Thaxll'ssyllia on 03/15/06 22:06
It's usually a long way before you get DS, Zen Archery can be really helpful.
No but as monk I can take martial weapon proficiency and get a longbow, it costs me a feat that could be used elsewhere but it will help the playability of this build until I reach level 28-ish, because throwing darts or using melee weapons with 10 STR and 10 DEX is not appealing to me.
You might want to consider sling, you can use it with a sling... especially if good projectiles are available.
Cheers, Kail _________________ Wait for me Dragon, we'll meet in the sky By fire and magic, I'm sworn Hell is calling, we cannot be denied Fly to the blackness of the Storm
We must die to be reborn!
Edited By Kail Pendragon on 03/15/06 22:30
Given the lvl 30 limit and the Dragon Shape desire, might I suggest the following build.
BAB of 14 @ lvl 20. IKD @ lvl 29 Dragon Shape @ lvl 30 Shifter Shapes used during leveling up.
I thought the lvl 6 monk would be better than lvl 8 druid. But that's up to you really.
) so I cannot answer your last question. But I agree with TM that if lvling is real hard a cleric with trickery and war domain might be an easier choice. You'll end up buffing yourself at +26 AB(+20 AB, +12 STR for another +6 AB) and out of the wazoo AC. Cleric 26/Monk 4 maybe? 
You need wildsahpe 5 times a day.