the forestshadow is a mystic guardian of the wildlands, with the ability to strike swiftly at any trespassers, then disappear back into the shadows of the forest.
having some minor feat detail problems with this build. i've just found out from kail (a reputed expert) that weapon focus and epic weapon focus in unarmed strikes do NOT apply to shifted forms. improved critical and prowess do. since i'm using unarmed (or apparently 'creature weapons') when shifted and a bow when in 'normal' form... well, i suddenly have a couple of feat slots free, and i'm not sure what the best way to go is.
i have three slots where i put WF:ua, IC:ua, and EWF:ua. i can keep the IC, and change EWF to epic prowess. er, okay, so i have one slot free. unless i also take out weapon finesse -- which also doesn't work when shifted (until patch 1.67), and which i don't seem to need when shifted, as all my shifted forms have higher str bonuses, anyway. and with zen archery and 32 wis, not sure i need to bother with focussing in longbow. plus, i've never really played spellcasting characters, maybe i should dump the combat feats for defensive, like toughness? great fortitude, perhaps? this will probably see some pvp action, though i know it isn't the strongest pvp build.
anyway, for your comments and suggetions, here it is. the build is pretty much the way i like it, with the levels and stats. and only two metamagic feats (as it is, i have more spells than quickslots anyway). i might be interested if it could be changed to 5 levels of sd, for some servers with a minimum class level requirement of such. and, the feats in question, of course. those are marked with *.
ForestShadow elf: lawful neutral stats: STR 8 DEX 15 CON 12 WIS 17(32)INT 14 CHA 8
target skill majors: concentration: 42 discipline: 31 hide/movesh: 35 listen: 29 spellcraft: 42 tumble: 40 (note: not possible with points also used in animal empathy and heal, but these are targets)
er, i didnt write down the fort/ref/will and base attack and armor. i think the base attack is 24 and the ac 33? sorry.
thanks, guys :)
If you're aiming to fight being a dragon, which has automatic True Sight, I think Blind-Fight won't be needed...
On with the dragon, Zen Archery gets useless too (and while non-shifted, maybe spells are better than ranged attacks).
Toughness is always good, but a dragon's HP is never low, so, counting you can get 4 spare feats from weapon finesse, zen archery, weapon focus and epic weapon focus, improved disarm and knockdown might be good bets, I haven't tested if improved knockdown works over knockdown, since improved knockdown marks you as one size larger, and the dragon is already the largest, so I don't know if improved knockdown works over knockdown.
Empower spell, works great both for buffing and for casting, it could be instead of maximize spell or plus, for example, on casting power, you can't cast a maximized firestorm because maximized occupy 2 levels higher, and there are no level 10 slots, while you can cast empowered firestorm since empowered occupies one slot higher, some buffs can work better with an empowered, since it's by percentage a better choice, but if your items give you bonus, for example, +7 STR from items, a maximized bull's strength would be perfect.
Armor Skin is also a possibility to take instead of EWF.
If you're aiming to fight being a dragon, which has automatic True Sight, I think Blind-Fight won't be needed...
True Sight doesn't help with concealed opponents. _________________ The world is grey, the mountain's old The forge's fire is ashen and cold No harp is wrung, no hammer falls The darkness dwells in Druin's halls...
~ Summoning - Khazad-Dúm
You might want to move your SD lvls in epic to get +1 BAB. 21st and 22nd lvls seems a good choice.
Weapon Finesse, even when it will work, will benefit basically your air elemental form, so you might want to drop it.
Get empower spell. It will benefit you greatly.
Toughness, blind fight, disarm/ID, expertise/IE are good feats to pick up too.
Personally I'd do without WF: longbow, or otherwise drop maximise spell for EWF: longbow.
Also, I'd pick up human for the extra skillpoints, feat and no XP penalty.
DEX 15 is way too high, go 14 or 13 just for the requirements (why 15 btw?)
You could start with 18 WIS and change the epic spel to a Great WIS feat. Or start like this and drop the epic spell for Armor skin. Or get Armor skin instead of max spell. epic spell sounds cool, but they are not worth the feat for just 1 use/day, IMO. You can do without them at no loss, +2 AC is much better.
You might want to raise INT to 13 and drop STR to 8 to qualify for exp/IE or disarm/ID, taking the feats instead of something else.
Owl's Insight will give you +6 AC, +6 ranged AB alone. AoV will net you another +2 AC. Barkskin +5 AC. Elemental protection like there's no tomorrow from your spell list. HiPS plus your druid spells willl let you disappear in the forest all to easily. Empowered Bull's strength, AoV and Blood frenzy will let you cap your STR for a +6 AB. A good build in low magic settings. You might want to consider going Druid 32/Monk 6/SD 2 also.
For servers with restrictions go Druid 25/SD 5/Monk 10 for example. You'll have one less druid bonus feat, take DS has your druid bonus feat, and swap the great WIS for something like epic reflexes.
Cheers, Kail _________________ Wait for me Dragon, we'll meet in the sky By fire and magic, I'm sworn Hell is calling, we cannot be denied Fly to the blackness of the Storm
We must die to be reborn!
heyas;
the monk levels give me kd/ikd for free, so no problem there.
according to my book, empower spell IS 2 slots higher, not 1. maximize spell is 3 slots higher. if the book is wrong, please clarify, thanks :)
finneous: can you expound on that? i though see invisibile revealed magically invisible creatures and not non-magically hiding ones. and true sight revealed everything. in fact, i play on a server that hates the fact that true sight reveals hiding creatures, so they changed it to 'see invisible +bonus to spot' instead. but you said "concealed" creatures. what does THAT mean? true seeing sees invisible and hiding, but not PARTLY invisible creature?? ;D
i think i need zen archery for when im a low-level whimp. the weapon finesse, though... i think i can chuck. (but i think my server character is stuck with it, cuz i already took it.)
armor skin: im getting monk wis bonus to armor, so i'm not too concerned there. toughness: i have decent con, though low hp classes, so... this is always good, but not sure it is vital. blind fight: also always good, but i don't think vital here. there is true-seeing on the dragon, and in spells. also, as i understand it, druids using aoe spells are really hell on shadow dancers.
what do you guys think of spell penetration? is that worthwhile? does my high wis and/or high spellcraft give me any spell dc boosts? i guess spellcraft is only spell resistance. i can fit sp and gsp on my current sheet. and go to epic sp if i rework the build with no weapon finesse.
i suppose its hard to say, unless i decide to be a mainly spell zapping druid or mainly a shifted fighting druid. i do kinda want a balance. i think i'll be spell whipping to start, using hide in plain sight to retreat and avoid direct combat. then for late-game/end-game, buff and transform to go melee. how does that sound? that's my PLAN, like i say, i've never played a spellcasting class before. so no idea if it is viable. :)
True Seeing doesn't help against, say SCV, while that's what BF is for. Thax was saying you should drop BF if you've TS, with which I disagree. _________________ The world is grey, the mountain's old The forge's fire is ashen and cold No harp is wrung, no hammer falls The darkness dwells in Druin's halls...
~ Summoning - Khazad-Dúm
I got your point, but I didn't said drop, I meant not-taking it, he doesn't has it. But now I take back my words.....
The thing about concealment, having checked true sight won't help you, is way different than invisibility, I'll try to explain: have you ever fought a concealed enemy like a shadow warrior, invisible stalker or something like that? (or of course, PvPs with SC) the thing is not that you don't see them, but they have sort of an evasion protection that is called concealment, when you attack a concealed enemy there is on the feedback this annoying stuff, no matter how high is your AB, I think not even critical matters, when the concealment percentage falls in, you just miss instantly, Blind-Fight allows you to reroll when that happens, improving hit chance against concealed enemies by double. So, taking Blind-Fight is good, take it.
Now that I think about it, I did take Blind-Fight on my dragon build.... lol
Hmmmm, don't go by what I say, since I'm pretty new into casting style, but I think Spell Penetration feats won't work since you're not high enough caster to beat high Spell Resistances anyway, but probably someone else can tell you better than me. WIS does give you DC on spells, but SR is totally different, to boost DCs you use Spell Focus feats, you can get good DCs IMO, you already have a high WIS.
Edited By Thaxll'ssyllia on 03/25/06 21:37
oops, looks like i cross-posted with some of yas.
kail:
elf because... my character is an elf, not a human :)
sd levels: i wanted those as soon as possible for the hide in plain sight protection. i don't do well fighting monsters, and the server i'm on is particularly tough. for my straight-to-40 build, though, i can move those. for the server build i can put the second level much later, but i dont know as that would help anything.
dex 15: for +2, this is going onto my armor class along with the monk wis armor class bonus.
epic spell: you're right, this could probably be switched for something better. i was distracted by the pretty lights :)
disarm: eh, i don't like disarm. well, i like it, but a lot of people dont... stealing people's weapons... making them drop an uber-expensive sword just as the server crashes, and then they reboot and don't have it... things like that. so i tend to avoid that one.
okay guys, tell me why you think empower spell is so much greater than maximize? maximize makes your spell fire at max whateveritdoes. like if it does, say, 10d6, you'll always get your 60 points out of it.
empower extends the top range of the spell by 50%. BUT, that doesn't guarantee you get it. so you COULD get um... 15d6, IF you roll all 15 as d6, but what are the odds of that?
not saying you're wrong, i'm saying i don't see it. and i'm bad at math, too ;)
oh, yeah, that concealed thing where its a %concealment = % miss or something. that's still on with true seeing? that's dopey. but okay. blind fight very important. (for some reason, i keep thinking blind fight is for when you fight somebody you can't see. gee, dunno where i get THAT idea.)
um... whats scv and aov?
okay, how's this look for the feat list....?
dodge mobility toughness zen archery blind fight improved critical:ua extend spell maximize spell empower spell epic prowess dragon form (er, shape) g wis... 5
now that my server build is stuck with weapon finesse, i have to drop something from this list. candidates are most likely toughness, epic prowess, imp crit:ua, or one of the spell boosters. got votes on which one would be best to drop?
thanks, guys. :)
Edited By bloodsong on 03/26/06 01:07
Dex 14 is the same as dex 15 if you don't plan on bumping it up later.
If you don't want disarm then may I suggest going for Expertise/ IE? Worthwhile feats, especially if you don't have anything else super useful to take instead.
The reason everyone likes empowered is that it actually has the potential to outdo a maximized version of the same spell. Considder ( x ) vs ( 1.5x), where x is 1d4+1 (you average stat buff). While you can have a static 5, there's a good chance you'll recieve higher numbers by rolling the dice (anywhere from 3 to 7; not sure how the engine deals with decimals honestly so it might even bug to 8?).
I'd drop Zen Archery and either Maxed or Empowered spell, picking up Expertise/ IE (since you don't like Disarm) in their place.
EDIT: Just realised this will drop a stat due to the Int 13 requirement. Not the end of the world given you won't be outcasting casters.
Considder ( x ) vs ( 1.5x), where x is 1d4+1 (you average stat buff). While you can have a static 5, there's a good chance you'll recieve higher numbers by rolling the dice (anywhere from 3 to 7; not sure how the engine deals with decimals honestly so it might even bug to 8?).
It's (1d4 +1) * 1.5 rounded down, that's 7.5 at best, and 7 after rounding _________________ "Ever notice how wizards think all life in the Realms dances on their hands and lasts from day to day only because they work constantly to keep us all alive? How do they think we survive when they're in the bathroom?"
oh, yeah, that concealed thing where its a %concealment = % miss or something. that's still on with true seeing? that's dopey. but okay. blind fight very important. (for some reason, i keep thinking blind fight is for when you fight somebody you can't see. gee, dunno where i get THAT idea.)
Well, to be honest, concealment doesn't necessarliy happen from being half-visible, but in case of specters and the SSC feats you kinda exist on 2 planes, fading in and out. Half-ethereal. Doesn't help to see him if his body isn't all the places it should be.
Quote: um... whats scv and aov?
Self-concealment, a feat you can take to get permanent and undispellable concealment
Aura of vitality, the Druid spell.
out _________________ I see the fear you have inside, you can run but never hide. I will hunt you down and tear you limb from limb.
I run the Pre-Epic Builders guild. Join and share your experience.
heyas;
yeah, empowered has the potential to out-do maximized... or it's just plain normal. depending on what you roll. i tend to put my money on the sure thing, rather than the 'maybe it'll be more if you're lucky.' ;) but okay, i can get that in there. i'm sure i'll learn to love it ;)
dex: i think at one point i was able to boost it up somewhere, but i guess not any more. i can drop it to 14, then.
expertise: wait... expertise??? that's where you go into a defensive fighting mode, ainnit? and get -5 on attacks. no, i never use that. isn't that kinda like parry mode? unless you mean go into this mode while NOT fighting and just cast spells with a +5 ac??? oh, that's evil... does it let you do that??
unless you mean go into this mode while NOT fighting and just cast spells with a +5 ac??? oh, that's evil... does it let you do that??
By default, it does, but it can be prevented. _________________ "Ever notice how wizards think all life in the Realms dances on their hands and lasts from day to day only because they work constantly to keep us all alive? How do they think we survive when they're in the bathroom?"
