Alright, I no longer really care all that much about specific builds. I had asked for Dragon Druids, Assasins, and a Bard build. Now, really, I just want the most uberest build I can get my hands on
Same level 30 server, +2 items are the best to be counted on, no immunities granted by items, and no haste on items. Scrolls and potions exist of the highest quality but not easy to find at all unless someone makes them for you. Shadowdancer is dissalowed and there will be no single level class cheese (Ex. Sorcerer 28/Pally 1/ Monk 1) because there is a minimum of 3 levels per class. RDD required at least 10 levels of Bard or Sorcerer...and that is all...
Please, please, please...level 30 build. I dont much care what it is but please not a pure Sorcerer or Wizard because that is just too boring and unoriginal. (I am willing to take cleric, not a preference, but willing none the less.)And on the note of preference: No Half-Orcs!
Thanks.
EDIT: Crap, forgot to mention that this is an RP server so no Lawful Good Blackgaurds or anything (unless you know of a RP-based logical loophole that a DM might allow)
Edited By Zoodleton on 04/20/06 21:20
Nobody ever listens (or rather, read), there is no such thing as "The_best_build".
Well, I'll try to fetch something up, me likes Cleric for your +2 enhancement, this is a build I've thought about and like it myself, but I haven't made it, tested it, nor optimized leveling, so you might not see it so "the best", but I like it (formatted for level 30).
Cleric 16 / Monk 9 / Harper Scout 5
Human
STR 14 DEX 8 CON 14 INT 12 WIS 15 (20) CHA 14 (18)
Domains: Strength (for even more Divine Power), Trickery (Improved invicibility will be great)
1 Cleric1 - Alertness, Iron Will 2 Monk1 3 Cleric2 - Power Attack 4 Cleric3 - WIS +1 (16) 5 Cleric4 6 Cleric5 - Divine Might 7 Monk2 8 Cleric6 - WIS +1 (17) 9 Cleric7 - Divine Shield 10 Cleric8 11 Cleric9 12 Monk3 - WIS +1 (18) Extend Spell 13 Cleric10 14 Cleric11 15 Cleric12 - Blind-Fight 16 Cleric13 - WIS +1 (19) 17 Monk4 18 Monk5 - Weapon Focus: kama 19 Cleric14 20 Cleric15 - WIS +1 (20) 21 Harper Scout1 - EWF: kama, Great CHA (15) 22 Harper Scout2 23 Harper Scout3 24 Harper Scout4 - CHA +1 (16), Epic Prowess 25 Harper Scout5 - Great CHA (17) 26 Monk6 27 Monk7- Improved Critical: kama 28 Monk8 - CHA +1 (18) 29 Cleric15 [spellcraft] 30 Monk9 - Armor Skin
I'm aware maybe more Monk levels sooner for IKD might be better......
AB: +26 AC: 23
[Add a bunch of buffs here and stats go much higher.]
Now, probably you can get something better, (especially since it's not an "optimized" build) but "the best build" can be subjective... so I could say "my build" is always "the best build" for me.
Anyway, this is not an optimized build, I'm not posting it as mine just like that, so don't criticize this build... too much.... and give ideas for Zoodleton I guess.
Thanks for the suggestion, I might make a Cleric/Monk, though preferably as a last resort since they are so popular on my server. Definetly a possibility though; I just want something a little different (Sorry for being picky)
Depends A LOT on the server really, spells nerfs and things can make a big difference to a build. In a low magic server though you'll not beat a cleric or mage for ubertude.
EDIT: Crap, forgot to mention that this is an RP server so no Lawful Good Blackgaurds or anything (unless you know of a RP-based logical loophole that a DM might allow)
Hey, it's all up to your own imagination to whip up a background story and a character concept. And you have to make a persuade check against the DM, of course... _________________ "And one calculates time from the dies nefastus on which this fatality arose – from the first day of Christianity! – Why not rather from its last? – From today? – Revaluation of all values!"
Ya, I'n normally good with background stories, I'm just saying: Nothing over the top! I dont want a Palemaster Druid or anything...(Druids despise undead)...Im sure you get the idea.
*sobs* But so far I have only gotten 1 build suggestion!
What about a Rogue/Wizard? Can they be any good?
Lots of buffs with sneak attack damage and hide/ms, tumble...seems pretty good, but I dont know by experience? Any comments?
You could always go for a Cleric CoT combo, with a single level of monk/ bard/ hs to max out tumble.
With +2 gear and hopefully no nerfs to spells like GMW, etc. then Cleric all the way for solving your melee problems.
There are several reasons you got only one idea! I think the main reason is, as stated above! There is no such thing as the "best"! It cannot happen. Let me try to explain it this way: you play, and enjoy different aspects of the game than I or ANY of the other posters here. Because of this, your style will be different. THus, your choice of how you play say a cleric/ftr/cot will be different! If, for example, you are in love with casting, this combo isnt the best for you. BUT, if you love melee with alot of buffs available, then this combo can be the cat's meow! THis is the third or fourth time you've asked for the "best" and each time you have not gotten what you asked for... Please, try to understand this! THERE ISN"T ONE BEST BUILD! THERE ISNT ONE UBER BUILD! There is just one best build for YOU! and unfortunately, we cannot tell you what that is. You have to discover it for yourself.
Good luck with your search.
Quote: Posted 04/22/06 13:47:07 (GMT) -- avado
There are several reasons you got only one idea! I think the main reason is, as stated above! There is no such thing as the "best"! It cannot happen. Let me try to explain it this way: you play, and enjoy different aspects of the game than I or ANY of the other posters here. Because of this, your style will be different. THus, your choice of how you play say a cleric/ftr/cot will be different! If, for example, you are in love with casting, this combo isnt the best for you. BUT, if you love melee with alot of buffs available, then this combo can be the cat's meow! THis is the third or fourth time you've asked for the "best" and each time you have not gotten what you asked for... Please, try to understand this! THERE ISN"T ONE BEST BUILD! THERE ISNT ONE UBER BUILD! There is just one best build for YOU! and unfortunately, we cannot tell you what that is. You have to discover it for yourself.
Good luck with your search.
Sure, that's one way to look at it. Another way (at least for PvP) is that every build has a weakness, and thus the perfect build for a certain situation is the one that beats the opponent's build. However, at the same time, there's a type of build that beats your own And there's a build that beats the build that beats your build. And so on... My point is that there's no one build that can handle everything -- like avado says, make a build you like and explore its strong points and its weaknesses. When you know what these are, the build will be a strong build in your hands.
I hope that's reasonable _________________ "And one calculates time from the dies nefastus on which this fatality arose – from the first day of Christianity! – Why not rather from its last? – From today? – Revaluation of all values!"
Edited By FinneousPJ on 04/22/06 15:02
Make the builds yourself Zoodleton, so that you don't need somebody else to do it for you and it didn't come out perfect, I find that much easier.
Here you got a cheeseball, should do okay in PvP, as long as you don't have to level it up and such. In case you have, this is without xp-penalty.
Gets +4 from the cleric buffs, but the trade for that is epic dodge, which should serve you fine. I left the discipline skill alone, it will probably be to low to help anyhow.
You have a bunch of clerical buffs, using divine power for supermonk-mode. Flurry, DP and haste should give you the damage you need. For domains, trickery should be nice for imp invis, other than that, pick what gives you the spells you want.Strength, healing, plant and war is okay. With your Wis score 1 higher you get access to lvl7 spells if you want(drop EP for great WIS).
Stunning fist (what IS that? a pretty hand?) DC would be 28 + Wis buffs. Usable vs low fort characters.
I won't do the AB/AC calculations for you though.
You can go lower with Monk if you want, f.ex. stopping it at 9, for imp evasion.
*edit* oh, and this is a game of rock/scissors/paper. You can be good, but not unbeatable. If you could, everyone would tie in PvP. _________________ Dragonlance ROH is back, better than before! and I spend a little time here WoG
Edited By Grimnir77 on 04/22/06 15:22
Quote: You can be good, but not unbeatable. If you could, everyone would tie in PvP.
No ties, that's what the roll is for, but good point.
Indeed there are "uber" builds but no "uberest" build. For example, my dear Jormundgandr, although it rocks in low magic, will have no easy time in case an exalted sorceress shows up. As Grim says it's rock-scissors-paper game. A party of uber builds covering each other weaknesses is the way to go
Go with the kind of build that suits your playstyle and make as uber as possible of course
Cheers, Kail _________________ To hear the sound of Freedom, many gave their lives They fought for you and me Those memories will always live inside us, and now it's our time to be free
Not much more to do, pointing builds might not be so useful sice they're all level 40, and you're capped at 30.
I suppose you should try to make the build by yourself and then ask for help to improve it, that's what I regularly do, after the build is done it's easier to point out what can be improved, but you'll never end if you want the build to be perfect beforehand.
I suppose you should try to make the build by yourself and then ask for help to improve it, that's what I regularly do, after the build is done it's easier to point out what can be improved, but you'll never end if you want the build to be perfect beforehand.
This is very sound advice, and should wisely be heeded. _________________ I see the fear you have inside, you can run but never hide. I will hunt you down and tear you limb from limb.
I run the Pre-Epic Builders guild. Join and share your experience.
Alrighty. I have tried out alot of builds
(Cleric/Fighter/Bard, Cleric/Monk/Druid, Paladin/Monk/Cleric, Ranger/Assasin, Bard/Assasin, Bard/WM/RDD, Bard/RDD, Rogue/Blackgaurd, Wizard, Wizard/Rogue, Rogue/Monk, Monk....One more that I'm forgetting...and a bit of Shifter)
And I began to realize that the most interesting of all classes is definetly the shifter. Even at only 30 levels in can still get plenty of cool shapes and I can already predict how fun it would be to RP as one.
I am terribly sorry for all the people who took the time to post some builds (Thank You) but I am afraid I likely won't use them, sorry. I never, until now, created any form of Shifter, but it seems well-suited for me...
So I tried to make one.
I got Rakshasa Form since I heard about the Spell Immunity and Infinite Empowered Ice Storms, and it turned out to be decent. It had 50-something AC (58 I think, buffed) I don't remember the AB, it was decent but that wasnt really what I was aiming for, and of course I got the Ice Storms Empowered. I got the Azer Chieftain with over 40 AB I think, but I can't really remember.
The build was a Monk 3/Druid 14/Shifter 13...I think...something like that, maybe more Druid and less Shifter
Given what I have said, is there a better option for Shifters of 30 levels (Fitting all the same requirements I had on the front page of this thread)?
I don't much care which form it focusses on, if any, though I like the idea of the Rakshasa (other outsiders somewhat as well) as well as plenty of the non-epic forms. I don't know a single thing about Shifters though, so I'm, of course, open to anything you guys have to say.
Any class combination is alright aside from DD and Shadowdancer, and it can focus on anything, fitting the server requirements posted before. Thank you guys for putting up with my posts.
Godd thing that you decided by yourself, now, I don't like shifters too much, and I don't know too much about the shifts and stuff to really help you, however, I would encourage you to read this since it's a great guide on the shifter class.
Thanks, great guide, there are quite a few good help FAQ's for Shifters out there, very good stuff.
(Still complicated with all the merging techniqualities and stuff like that)
Still, I am curious as to the potential of the build. Just how good can it get with 30 levels and is it better to incorperate more Druid levels for spells and buffs, or better for extra epic Shifter levels to enhance their innate abilities?
Primarily I want a Rakshasa with the highest AC possible, with Improved Expertise of course, so it can just sit in some untouchable state while it bombards everything with Ice...failing that...it could cast Storm of Vengeance, Creeping Doom, and every other AoE spell 3 times or so, then sit in it while casting Ice Storm on itself a gagillion times so it becomes a whirling storm of infinite doom.
With the Expertise feats I got my AC to 53 I think...63? I don't remember. Was just wondering if anyone knows how to pump it up as high as possible.
Actually, I guess a better question to start with, is if extra Shifter levels are better than extra Druid levels.
Druids have the bonus of buffs and spells, very helpful with the Owl's Insight and Barkskin, it really helps the AC quite a bit. Not to mention all the DR and SR advantages.
Shifters have the benifit of...well...quite a bit. The higher the Shifter level, the better it's abilities are: DC's to abilities, Ability Scores, Weapon Enchantment (etc.) all improve.
I don't know exactly what the line is. By line, I mean the amount of Shifter levels it takes to make it worth while; I know at 12 levels the Drow doesn't get its +5 Freezing Blade, but rather something like a +3 Poison Blade.
If anyone has a recommended Shifter level that would be great, I was thinking 17 was good for the innate abilities though the Druid abilities take a big hit, if anyone has experience with playing this class, could you tell me if it is worth it in the long run?
Thanks.
17, 18, 19 Shifter lvs are all good stopping points for different reasons. LV 17 for the infinite humanoid improved forms, LVL 18 for the DCs/shapes special abilities/powers (they increase every 2 or 3 lvls, depending on which one, so 18 gets both improvements at the same lvl), LVL 19 for the bonus feat after getting all of the above.
Cheers, Kail _________________ To hear the sound of Freedom, many gave their lives They fought for you and me Those memories will always live inside us, and now it's our time to be free
THANK YOU! That helps quite a bit, hehe.
I dont think that the 19th level bonus feat is all that valuable in comparrison to an alternative class such as Druid for the spell power, I am guessing 17 would be a good stopping point, thanks for the help, I am off to test another one out and probably come back with some more questions.
I would do Druid 6/ Monk 6/ Shifter 18 (Druid 6/ Monk 4/ Shifter 10 pre-epic). Start with an Int of 14, and take the sixth level of Druid at level 20 to max your Spellcraft ranks. This version has +1 AB over any pre-epic Druid 5/ Monk 5/ Shifter 10, and it has much better saves vs spells. _________________ There's always time to procrastinate.
Why the 6 monk levels? IKD, but I don't think I am feat-starved so I could get those the standard way and stick with 3 or 4 monk levels total, adding to Druid or Shifter. As for 6 Druid levels, is that not a little harsh on the spell power? I guess it can be made up for with the DC's on the Shifter abilities, because I guess thats what that class is for, I guess I just have to come to terms with the lack of Owls Insight and such, the AC boost really looked nice with a load of Druid levels. Though of course the Shifter suffered. Damn NWN and it's progress-impeding ways.
Thanks though, I am off to test out this Shifter and will likely come back with another question.
Toodles
Alrighty.
I tried some things that were recommended to me and some things that weren't.
I was somewhat happy with Monk 4/Druid 7/Shifter 19
It lacked alot of Druid Spell Power which wasn't very nice but the Shifter DC's weren't bad. The Mind Flayer had a DC of 28 or 30, I forget, and the Vampire's Level Drain had a DC of 30 with his Dominate at a nearly equal height. So basically the Shifter levels were very satisfactory.
The monk levels of course, were very helpful with AC, I would have liked to have only 3 but the awkward positioning required a 4th for the skill dump in the end. My server doesn't make it easy to do things like this.
My AC's ranged from 40's to 60's and then I had both the expertise feats, so my AC was -NOT- a problem.
AB's were very disheartening though. I don't think any of them had AB's of 40 or higher. Azer Cheiftain had 38 and I think the only one hitting 40 was the Demonflesh Golem. Other than that, all the others had mid-30's or lower. I didn't like this.
So, my question to you all, is:
Can Shifter's, in any form, get higher AB than what I had stated using the servers requirements stated previously? 40+ would be great.
Just point me in the right direction; would it require more Monk? More Druid? A 20th Shifter level? Or something else? I got a 4th attack by putting the first shifter level at the multiple of 4 but that doesn't help the height of the AB, only the amount.
Advice? Help? Shocking truths?
What shapes does your build have? Just post the using the build template and we'll have a look at it, aye? _________________
Quote: Posted 04/26/06 12:05:52 (GMT) -- Ithacan
[...]Harper Scout, the only class so powerful it's capped at five. [...]
I will have to go back and remake one since I haven't really kept onto the numbers or records. In the meantime I will give you what I can:
This, I believe was the scheme of the leveling, I don't remember where the final Monk level was, but it was enough to get me 30 Tumble and what not.
I had:
Construct Shapes Outsider Shapes Undead Shapes
And of course, all the other Shapes at their Epic forms, which gave most of them +5 Weapons or better.
Low Druid Levels: BAD SPELL POWER High Shifter Levels: GREAT FORMS Monk Cheese: MONK CHEESE
I had 4-5 Attacks per round in most Shifter Forms With Improved Expertise I could get my AC over 60
...While I remake the build for all the facts, can someone tell me how high a Shifter form (Aside from Dragon) can get it's AB? With no items aside from what the form gives?
Check this and then have a look here. I'm sorry, but direct links to Game***s *oops* don't work, so you'll have to find it yourself. Search for Neverwinter Night Horders of the Underdark and download the Shifter FAQ. _________________
Quote: Posted 04/26/06 12:05:52 (GMT) -- Ithacan
[...]Harper Scout, the only class so powerful it's capped at five. [...]
Edited By FinneousPJ on 05/09/06 19:18
Alrighty, thanks Finn, but I figure that I mine as well post a build here...
This is one just made to try and give you something to comment on so I can get a better idea:
AB: 38/33/28 (4th and 5th Attacks are Gone!?) (+6 Longsword, +2d4 Cold and Slow Effect)
AC 49 to 59 (Expertise)
Fortitude: 21 Reflex: 24 Will: 25
SR: 30
Damage Reduction Freedom of Movement Damage Resistance
NOTES: This is the highest the AB's will get, that is the major problem I am having. The AC doesn't bother me much nor does anything else... Just the 'darn' AB's!
Nothing? Advice? Comments?
And there's a build that beats the build that beats your build. And so on... 
My point is that there's no one build that can handle everything -- like avado says, make a build you like and explore its strong points and its weaknesses. When you know what these are, the build will be a strong build in your hands.