I was surprised, but when i looked up for Ranger / Monk / Rogue combinations, there are only 4 and none of them has Bane of Enemies, I couldn't believe my eyes, I think it's a fairly strong combination.

I was thinking on making a Ranger 21 / Monk 2 / Rogue 17, which will allow me to use two kamas with Bane of Enemies on 5 Favored Enemies and 9d6 sneak attack, but I have two main issues about it and would like to hear opinions from fellow builders.

The first issue is, if I take Ranger all pre-epic I'll retain a 30 BAB, but, I'd need to get Exotic Proficiency to get other kama feats.
On the other side, I could take Monk at maybe level 2, with levels 1 and 2 (as second monk level is for Deflect Arrows, since Ranger and Rogue won't get more benefit thatn that) I'd loose only 1 AB and could get skilldump on Tumble, wouldn't need to take Exotic Proficiency and overall would be far more playable.

The other issue is if I should go DEX or STR based, Rogue gets Uncanny, so I could go DEX for a higher AC, since I won't be wearing heavy armor. I can choose as Favored Enemies undead, constructs and dragons, which are inmune to sneak attacks and thus giving it a decent damage in every or almost every situation (also Favored Enemy dwarves for Dwarven Defenders in PvP).
On the other side a STR based would kill really fast with the 9 unhasted APR + sneaks and maybe Favored Enemy, but AC will be suicidally low.

Availability of Hide/Move Silently might also be a factor, as I commonly prefer to use IKD for sneaks rather than Hide, DEX based gets better Hide checks, but if I don't take Hide, as STR based, I will have less trouble allocating skillpoints. Considering an INT of 14 for IKD, but I won't take more INT.

Edited By Thaxll'ssyllia on 05/14/06 22:58

why go kama at all? how about unarmed (if you can get some good monk gloves)?
Quote: Posted 05/14/06 22:54:56 (GMT) -- Thaxll'ssyllia

The first issue is, if I take Ranger all pre-epic I'll retain a 30 BAB, but, I'd need to get Exotic Proficiency to get other kama feats.

First off I think Ranger 21/Monk 6/Rogue 13 is a bit better, you get to pick up the knockdowns for free, +1 AC and +20% to movement for 2D6 sneak attack a Rogue bonus feat and 16 skill points.

I say do the build both ways and see what feels right, that's always worked for me. Exotic Weapon Proficiency isn't much to take, and is worth one AB (epic prowess is isn't it?). On the other hand Monk saves you a feat, If you take the two monk levels pre-epic you can boost tumble periodically to increase your AC which would make the character more playable. Since you probably will have enough epic feats*, I think you could afford to take the exotic weapon proficiency.

Quote: 
The other issue is if I should go DEX or STR based, Rogue gets Uncanny, so I could go DEX for a higher AC, since I won't be wearing heavy armor. I can choose as Favored Enemies undead, constructs and dragons, which are inmune to sneak attacks and thus giving it a decent damage in every or almost every situation (also Favored Enemy dwarves for Dwarven Defenders in PvP).
On the other side a STR based would kill really fast with the 9 unhasted APR + sneaks and maybe Favored Enemy, but AC will be suicidally low.

Without batting and eye-lid, go for the dex. build. Other than PMs you should do decent damage.

*=With your current level plan you get 3 rogue reats, maybe one Ranger feat (you only need to be an epic ranger and have 3 favored enemies to get bane of enemies) and 7 regular. Of these 3 would likely be epic weapon focus, epic prowess and bane of enemies, that leaves 4 or 5 regular and 3 rogue bonus for whatever else you want.
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Two wrongs don't make a right but three lefts do. If the build is for PvM, just go with the STR-path. With decent dex-gear your AC will be okay. For PvM, the DEX path is possibly best. Dex will be hard to level, at least early on.
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I see the fear you have inside, you can run but never hide.
I will hunt you down and tear you limb from limb.

I run the Pre-Epic Builders guild. Join and share your experience. Unarmed? it would be so weak, besides, you don't use the automati improved two weapon fighting which is great and one of the ideas.

Taking 6 Monk levels depends on wether I can get IKD with normal feats or not, bcuase I want sneak strong, but if my feats are not enough then I'm screwed. Let's see, 7 pre-epic, DEX based, 1.Weapon Finesse, 2.Weapon Focus, 3.Improved Critical, 4.Blind-Fight... I think I can take KD and IKD and still take Toughness all pre-epic.

Might take some time to make the build though.... don't ask why, but I've had to get NWN uninstalled.

Thanks Well, here goes the non-tested version, or somthing colse to what it should look like.

Human

Any lawful

STR 10
DEX 16
CON 14
WIS 14
INT 14
CHA 8

I those stats are OK....

1 Ranger1 - Weapon Proficiency: kama, Weapon Finesse, Favored Enemy I
2 Ranger2
3 Ranger3 - Weapon Focus: kama
4 Ranger4 - DEX +1 (17)
5 Ranger5 - Favored Enemy II
6 Ranger6 - Blind-Fight
7 Ranger7
8 Ranger8 - DEX +1 (18)
9 Ranger9 - Knockdown
10 Ranger10 - Favored Enemy III
11 Ranger11
12 Ranger12 - DEX +1 (19), Improved Critical: kama
13 Ranger13
14 Ranger14
15 Ranger15 - Improved Knockdown, Favored Enemy IV
16 Ranger16 - DEX +1 (20)
17 Ranger17
18 Ranger18 - Toughness
19 Ranger19
20 Ranger20 - DEX +1 (21), Favored Enemy V
21 Ranger21 - Bane of Enemies
22 Monk1
23 Rogue1
24 Rogue2 - DEX +1 (22), Epic Weapon Focus: kama
25 Rogue3
26 Rogue4
27 Rogue5 - Epic Prowess
28 Rogue6 - DEX +1 (23)
29 Rogue7
30 Rogue8 - Great DEX I (24)
31 Rogue9
32 Rogue10 - DEX +1 (25), Defensive Roll, Epic Dodge
33 Rogue11
34 Rogue12
35 Rogue13 - Great DEX II (26), Crippling Strike
36 Rogue14 - DEX +1 (27)
37 Rogue15
38 Rogue16 - Armor Skin, Improved Evasion*
39 Rogue17
40 Monk2 - DEX +1 (28)

*Might change that for Improved Sneak Attack I... Reflex should be very high.

Some thoughts, I get XP penalty from level 25 on, no matter if he's human or not, so I could change race to elf or halfing for more DEX instead of Toughness.... I'd lose Skillpoints though.

Uh, is a Discipline check of 43 useful? having only 10 STR that Discipline might be too low for PvPs.

skillpoints should be.... 356 being human, enough for Tumble, UMD, Discipline, Hide, Move Silently, Spellcraft, Heal and Listen (which is what I normally use, don't start saying you want more skillpoints Grim)

HP: 448 counting Toughness
BAB 30
Mainhand AB: +41/+38/+35/+32/+29/+26 (+2 vs Favored Enemies)
Offhand AB: +41/+36 (+2 vs Favored Enemies)
AC: 31 (10 Base +9 DEX +2 WIS +8 Tumble +2 Armor Skin)
Damage 1d6 + 2d6+5 vs Favored enemies + 9d6 sneak attack (or 10d6 with ISA I)

As for spells, they should be 4/4/3/3, not so impressive buffs as for ranger spell, but it's better than nothing.

How does it looks so far? You need both Defensive Roll and Improved Evasion for Epic Dodge, Thax.
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Quote: Posted 04/26/06 12:05:52 (GMT) -- Ithacan

[...]Harper Scout, the only class so powerful it's capped at five.
[...]

Ok, thanks Finn, here it goes then:

32 Rogue10 - DEX +1 (25), Great DEX II (26), Defensive Roll
33 Rogue11
34 Rogue12
35 Rogue13 - Improved Evasion, Epic Dodge
36 Rogue14 - DEX +1 (27)
37 Rogue15
38 Rogue16 - Armor Skin, Crippling Strike
39 Rogue17
40 Monk2 - DEX +1 (28)

There it goes, unless you want Crippling Strike sooner, just move stuff around.

That settles Improved Evasion.