I've tried a couple times so far, and havent had any luck. I'd like to build a High damage, high ab/ pally smiter, with 4th level pall. spells. The world I'm building him on demands that the mellee builds be very close to top notch, and the gear is near its highest at +5. Most gear that goes beyond this is rp awarded gear, which doesnt happen often.
Mostly what I'm looking for is a general feat progression list for a great smiting pally WM.
I'd like to have say.. mabey near 1000 damage per smite, considering a +5 weapon, and maxed str bonus items. *Hopes it is possible* _________________ Daryl
I don't know the layout, but:
Paladin/CoT/WM
or
Paladin/Cleric/WM
Will both get rediculous damage. You could go with a Scythe for x5 damage with a 15-20 range (I think) which could land you many 1000's of damage, easy. The CoT route is quite nice because it stacks with Paladin levels for Smite abilities, and you get better saves and rapid feat progression which will get you to WM much faster.
If you go the Cleric route you will suffer on you're ending Smite damage a little bit but you will get some nice buffs depending on how far you go. You would get Darkfire, Attribute Buffs... possibly Harm which is incredibly useful... (etc.)
Personally I would go with Paladin/CoT/WM
You also have the option of what weapon you take for WM. If you do go with the Scythe you aren't gaurenteed Criticals on every hit, and you only get 3 shots at Smite, so it is rather risky... but potentially insane (1 shot kill on success) or you could go with something like a Scimitar. You could get the range down to 10 if the weapon is keened (I think) but it would only be x3 damage. It is safer because you are far more likely to hit a Critical, though it is not as powerful. Still, it is something to be feared.
The only concern with these builds is if you run into a Pale Master who is immune to Criticals, or if there are Critical Immunity Items. And don't concern yourself with gear. You automatically get a +5 Holy Avenger so you're servers weapons dont matter. Even if you got a +7 Weapon, I would take the +5 Holy Avenger for the Dispell on hit. Also, if you take Cleric you can give yourself a +5 Shield and +5 Armour. But if that stuff is easy to find on your server then forget Cleric and go CoT.
And if it really is a Smiter you want more so than anything else, make sure you get Divine Might and Divine Shield which ill greatly increase your Damage and AC considering you should have near or over 30 Charisma without a problem.
If you want a better all-around-smiter without the Crits, I would just go Paladin/CoT. The CoT bonus feats will get the Improved Smites at a very quick rate if you take the CoT's in Epic levels. If this is the path you take then go Paladin until you get 25 Natural Charisma, then take 10 CoT to get Great Smite every 2 levels as bonus feats. After that it is up to you if you take more CoT or go back to Paladin. The Paladin levels will increase Spell Duration and DC's of your (I think its 1) offensive spell(s) while CoT will increase your Saving Throws amongst other things.
. . .
After typing all that, I suppose I should ask what route you want to go. Are their Critical Immunities on your server? Do you like mega-damage or gaurenteed-damage? Enlighten me on what you are looking for and I might be able to help.
Check this out, nothing fancy but it gets what you need. A critical smite gets close to 1000 damage.
2-8 base scythe damage output +3 STR mod times 1.5 +9 capped STR +165 Great Smite V (33 paladin+CoT lvl times 5) +5 GMW or +5 scythe +5 divine favour --- 189-195 on a smite --- 945-975 on a critical smite
With some elemental damage added to your scythe you should go over 1000.
Paladin(15), Champion of Torm(18), Weapon Master(7) Human, Lawful Good
LEVELING GUIDE 01: Paladin(1): Weapon Proficiency Exotic, Weapon Focus: Scythe 02: Paladin(2): {Smite Evil} 03: Paladin(3): Expertise 04: Paladin(4): CHA+1, (CHA=15) 05: Paladin(5) 06: Paladin(6): Dodge 07: Paladin(7) 08: Champion of Torm(1): CHA+1, (CHA=16) 09: Champion of Torm(2): Spring Attack, Mobility 10: Champion of Torm(3) 11: Champion of Torm(4): Whirlwind Attack 12: Weapon Master(1): CHA+1, Power Attack, Weapon of Choice: Scythe, (CHA=17) 13: Weapon Master(2) 14: Weapon Master(3) 15: Paladin(8): Divine Shield 16: Weapon Master(4): CHA+1, (CHA=18) 17: Weapon Master(5) 18: Paladin(9): Divine Might 19: Weapon Master(6) 20: Paladin(10): CHA+1, (CHA=19) 21: Weapon Master(7): Extra Smiting 22: Champion of Torm(5) 23: Champion of Torm(6): Epic Weapon Focus: Scythe 24: Champion of Torm(7): CHA+1, Great Charisma I, (CHA=21) 25: Champion of Torm(8): Improved Critical: Scythe 26: Paladin(11) 27: Paladin(12): Great Charisma II, (CHA=22) 28: Champion of Torm(9): CHA+1, (CHA=23) 29: Champion of Torm(10): Epic Prowess 30: Champion of Torm(11): Great Charisma III, (CHA=24) 31: Champion of Torm(12) 32: Paladin(13): CHA+1, (CHA=25) 33: Champion of Torm(13): Great Smite I 34: Champion of Torm(14): Great Smite II 35: Champion of Torm(15) 36: Champion of Torm(16): CHA+1, Great Smite III, (CHA=26) 37: Paladin(14) 38: Champion of Torm(17) 39: Champion of Torm(18): Great Smite IV, Great Smite V* 40: Paladin(15): WIS+1, (WIS=14)
*can be changed for AS if you feel Great Smite IV is enough (-33 dmg on a smite, -165 dmg on a critical smite) or maybe for toughness for +40 HPs
You'll need some CON gear too, since your HPs are low.
Cheers, Kail _________________ Stand and fight, live by your heart Always one more try, I'm not afraid to die Stand and fight, say what you feel Born with a Heart of Steel!
Edited By Kail Pendragon on 06/04/06 19:13
Quote: After typing all that, I suppose I should ask what route you want to go. Are their Critical Immunities on your server? Do you like mega-damage or gaurenteed-damage? Enlighten me on what you are looking for and I might be able to help.
I'm more of a gaurenteed damage kinda guy There are rarely any immunities on players, though a few high level monsters have an undead class.
I play on a server where factions generate most of the epic gear for the players, so it is all customized for the intense action oriented hunting areas in this world. So Maxing both str and Con at High ranks is almost always a possibility. (The Wheel of Time - The Third Age, in the rp section, if any would like to take a peek )
Also, Sythe will bring out the intense damage from smiter builds and regular WM builds alike, but with a high lvl pally build, it makes going up to lvl 15 for the holy sword spell useless.
Btw, thank you alot. It was exactly the help I needed. You were a great help. _________________ Daryl
Why is the Holy Sword useless? It works on Scythes, doesn't it? (Never actually tried)
Yes it works on scythe perfectly.
Cheers, Kail _________________ To hear the sound of Freedom, many gave their lives They fought for you and me Those memories will always live inside us, and now it's our time to be free
Yup, just tested it, it works perfectly
When I did test it, I was getting fully spell buffed, with mid ranked faction equiptmen
AC: 65 AB:64 Fort: 57 Reflex: 53 Will:48 And on average around 700 damage per smite crit with a schimmy. *hasnt tried the scythe aside from seeing if Holy sword worked on it*
One thing I Figure I would do though, is since a couple of the spells wear off fairly quicky, I can use the feat used for exotic weap prof to get extended spell, to keep the intense pally buffs up longer.
Thanks again for the help _________________ Daryl
Wait...
You want to get rid of Exotic Weapon Proficiency for Extend Spell? But then you can't use a Scythe. Does that mean you intend to use a Scimitar or Rapier?
And what level of Great Smiting did you get? (And how many are there? 10 I think.)
Probably not the best build for your needs, but the Damage Adept may give you some ideas on how to get good Smite damage. Problem with Smites is you only get a maximum of 3 per day, so you'd better have a good damage source besides the Smite as well.
Quote: Posted 06/04/06 21:31:16 (GMT) -- Okembour
Wait...
You want to get rid of Exotic Weapon Proficiency for Extend Spell? But then you can't use a Scythe. Does that mean you intend to use a Scimitar or Rapier?
And what level of Great Smiting did you get? (And how many are there? 10 I think.)
Yes, thats the idea. With around 700 damage, its still almost a one hit kill, specially with the buffed ab he is getting. If he doesnt land a crit smite, he has two more to go, and still getting considerable damage due to the buffs anyways.
And it was Great Smite V. *isnt sure of another way to go higher*
I've heard of people on my world doing close to 2000 damage, and I assume its possible, but I've never been a big fan of the scythe. Personally, taking away the ac, and crit range for a higher multiplyer isnt worth it, unless your fighting an Evil max hp DD. *shrugs* I guess an axe would do more damage too, And still keep the sheild, though still loosing the crit range. _________________ Daryl
Well, what you could do is ignore the idea of Weapon Master all together.
I had a level 30 build that had great Smiting V or VI, I forget which. It was simply 20 Paladin/10 CoT and it did around 260 Damage on a smite. If you use a Keened Rapier or Scimitar then you can hit a Critical on a 10 or 12 which means you can pretty much count on at least 1 of those Smites doing double damage which will be quite at over 500, easily.
With 40 levels though, you can add either another 10 levels of Paladin for Spell Duration and what not, or another 10 levels of CoT for saves and such. Lets say you only got Great Smiting V on this build. Since you have 10 more levels than me, you would do an extra 10 damage on your Smite. But since you have great Smiting V it is multiplied by 5. You would do 50 more damage than me at around 310 I would guess. So if you hit a Critical (which you would quite often) you would likely do well over 600 damage with a much surer chance of it. Plus you get to use a shield!
Another advantage of this build is that you dont need to spend your feats on Weapon Master Presrequisits, which, in turn, means you dont need to start with the 13 Dex and 13 Int. You will have more points to spend in Charisma, Strength, and Constitution which will help you damage and HP greatly. The major advantage though, is that since you can start with 18 Charisma, you get to 25 sooner; and that of course means you get the Great Smiting feats sooner, leaving you more room to get -MORE- Great Smiting feats.
If you go Paladin 23 straight away, add nothing but Charisma until then, and get your first two epic feats as Greater Charisma, you will have 25 Cha on your 23rd level. That leaves you 17 levels to get as many Great Smites as you can! And right after you get that 25th Charisma point, you can/should start on CoT right away which will give you Great Smiting every 2nd level as bonus feats, PLUS you can add them on your regular feats every 3 levels. I am poor at math, but I think this means that by level 34 you would have Greater Smiting VIII, and you would still have a few more feats available to get you to Great Smiting X.
But, correct me if I am wrong, CoT bonus feats stop coming every 2nd level after 10 levels of that class. Then I think they start coming every 3rd or 4th levels like normal classes. Still though, you could very likely make it to Great Smiting VIII or higher.
SO...
Assuming you only get Great Smiting VIII, and you use a Keen Scimitar, while buffed you would likely do around 700-800 damage on a critical if you have nothing but Paladin and CoT levels.
. . .
Of course I may be entirely wrong in my 10 second calculations, but I would guess forgetting Weapon Master is best unless you really are fighting Maxed Constitution Barbarian DD's with Epic Damage Reduction and what not.
To get 2000 from a crit smite you need to sacrifice everything else including playability. It's not really worth it and considering the costs I'd never go beyond Great Smite V.
Actually Paladin 26/CoT 10/Fighter 4 could be a better way to go. Undispellable buffs and WS/EWS for better ordinary damage output and less feat starved. Check this out:
Paladin(26), Champion of Torm(10), Fighter(4) Human, lawful good
LEVELING GUIDE 01: Fighter(1): Power Attack, Weapon Focus, Knockdown 02: Fighter(2): Blind Fight 03: Fighter(3): Toughness 04: Paladin(1): CHA+1, (CHA=15) 05: Paladin(2): {Smite Evil} 06: Paladin(3): Divine Shield 07: Fighter(4): Weapon Specialization 08: Paladin(4): CHA+1, (CHA=16) 09: Paladin(5): Improved Critical 10: Paladin(6) 11: Paladin(7) 12: Paladin(8): CHA+1, Extra Smiting, (CHA=17) 13: Paladin(9) 14: Paladin(10) 15: Paladin(11): Extend Spell 16: Paladin(12): CHA+1, (CHA=18) 17: Paladin(13) 18: Paladin(14): Divine Might 19: Paladin(15) 20: Paladin(16): CHA+1, (CHA=19) 21: Champion of Torm(1): Epic Weapon Focus 22: Champion of Torm(2): Epic Weapon Specialization 23: Paladin(17) 24: Paladin(18): CHA+1, Great Charisma I, (CHA=21) 25: Paladin(19) 26: Paladin(20) 27: Paladin(21): Great Charisma II, (CHA=22) 28: Paladin(22): CHA+1, (CHA=23) 29: Paladin(23): Armor Skin 30: Paladin(24): Great Charisma III, (CHA=24) 31: Paladin(25) 32: Champion of Torm(3): CHA+1, (CHA=25) 33: Champion of Torm(4): Great Charisma IV, Great Smite I, (CHA=26) 34: Champion of Torm(5) 35: Champion of Torm(6): Great Smite II 36: Champion of Torm(7): STR+1, Epic Prowess, (STR=15) 37: Champion of Torm(8): Great Smite III 38: Champion of Torm(9) 39: Champion of Torm(10): Great Smite IV, Great Smite V 40: Paladin(26): STR+1, Great Smite VI, (STR=16)
I'd go warhammer and shield or great axe. Otherwise get WP:exotic and pick a scythe. The weapon choice is free, anyhow. Let me point out that you'll crit for over 700 dmg on a smite with a x3 multiplier weapon. Divine Wrath and Paladin buffs alone bring you almost to the AB cap (+19 AB). Self buffed CHA will give you another (not counting towards the cap) +12 AB on a smite, capped CHA nets +14 AB. A further +2 AB from self buffing STR is easily achievable. Self buffed only you'll have 58 AB (70 AB on a smite), capping it gets 63 (77 on a smite).
KD, BF and more HPs make the build more survivable and now you get Extend Spell too. BTW, your Lay on Hands is worth 288 HPs (432 self buffed), be it as healing or as harming undead.
Cheers, Kail _________________ Stand and fight, live by your heart Always one more try, I'm not afraid to die Stand and fight, say what you feel Born with a Heart of Steel!
Edited By Kail Pendragon on 06/04/06 23:40
Once more the obsession for huge crit ranges. I don't get it.
Guys, remember that crits first of all need to be landed hits, then they must be confirmed too which means you have to hit twice your opponents AC to land a crit: 10-20 is often worth nothing more than 16-20 if what you are facing is worth your time. I'd rather go for the higher multiplier so that when I hit it hurts.
Cheers, Kail _________________ Stand and fight, live by your heart Always one more try, I'm not afraid to die Stand and fight, say what you feel Born with a Heart of Steel!
I would, in most cases, agree with you Kail. But I would think that with a Smiter it is different. 10-20/x2 is a good percentage chance of threatening a Critical, with double the damage. Double the damage of an Epic Smite is quite formidable (Can raise above 800) which would, in my opinion, make a x3 Multiplier a bit of overkill. Plus, you stated that with your build there is a Smite AB of 77. 1d20 + 77 could surpass the AC of most things you will need to encounter.
So lets say you go the 10-20/x2 route. For your attack you would get 1d20 + 77AB... to threaten a critical you need to roll a 10. Rolling as such would give you an 88 to your Smite Attack in total. That, in my experiences will hit most things you need to worry about. That would make the 10-20/x2 useful. If you can hit on a 10, like this build can, the range is definetly enjoyable and practical concidering you will probably kill the enemy in one shot, and if not you have 2 more shots at it or you can just attack them normally with a still more-than-decent AB.
With almost any other build though I would side with you Kail. But when the Smite can Up your AB that much I would think the wide range crit is worth it.
I think you make a very good point, Okembour. I read Kail's post and was nodding my head going 'Yup, just the way I see it too', but you make a lot of sense. Considering the Smite boost to AB does not count towards the cap, a wider crit range will almost guarantee a crit in most circumstances. Although I'm a proponent of the bigger multiplier, for the reason you've laid out, I think it's often probably worth pursuing the bigger crit range in Smite builds.
Click Here _________________ "... C'est un pays plus nu que la terre polaire — Ni bêtes, ni ruisseaux, ni verdure, ni bois!
Or il n'est pas d'horreur au monde qui surpasse La froide cruauté de ce soleil de glace Et cette immense nuit semblable au vieux Chaos; ..."
Well yeah, true the wider crit range basically guarantees a critical smite I have to admit it.
I guess my tendency is to go with a higher non smite damage output at the same "effective" crit range (when you consider landed crits), hence the x3 multiplier choice, since you get only 3 smites a day.
I'd say that with no rest restriction the scimitar is definitely the way to go, with rest restriction there's a choice to be made which ultimately is up to personal preference... if only we could get more smites a day!
Cheers, Kail _________________ To hear the sound of Freedom, many gave their lives They fought for you and me Those memories will always live inside us, and now it's our time to be free
With 3.5 you will.... Lots more. Which may become way overpowered in good vs evil PvP......
The PAL26/Fighter4/CoT10 is the split I would use too, you can get the massive amount of 17 Epic feats with it, very good for Great Smite X builds, I planned to make one for the guild. _________________ I see the fear you have inside, you can run but never hide. I will hunt you down and tear you limb from limb.
I run the Pre-Epic Builders guild. Join and share your experience.
Quote: Posted 06/05/06 10:54:58 (GMT) -- Grimnir77 With 3.5 you will.... Lots more. Which may become way overpowered in good vs evil PvP......
How does it work, lvl dependant? *drools* Oh well, anyhow, it's gonna be for NWN2...
Quote: The PAL26/Fighter4/CoT10 is the split I would use too, you can get the massive amount of 17 Epic feats with it, very good for Great Smite X builds, I planned to make one for the guild.
Glad you like the split, you can easily get Great Smite X by starting CHA 16, CON 12, INT 12 then dropping two Great CHA, AS and EP for four Great Smites. You get +144 dmg on a non-critical smite but lose -1 AB, -2 AC, -40 HPs, -1 Fort save, -43 skillpoints (concentration?).
Cheers, Kail _________________ Looking for a realm of adventure? Check out World of Greyhawk, you won't regret it.
How does it work, lvl dependant? *drools* Oh well, anyhow, it's gonna be for NWN2...
Yeah, level dependant.
"Smite Evil (Su): Once per day, a paladin may attempt to smite evil with one normal melee attack. She adds her Charisma bonus (if any) to her attack roll and deals 1 extra point of damage per paladin level. If the paladin accidentally smites a creature that is not evil, the smite has no effect, but the ability is still used up for that day. At 5th level, and at every five levels thereafter, the paladin may smite evil one additional time per day, as indicated on Table: The Paladin, to a maximum of five times per day at 20th level.#
Epic:
"Smite Evil (Su): The epic paladin adds his or her class level to damage with any smite evil attack, as normal. He or she can smite one additional time per day for every five levels higher than 20th." _________________ "... C'est un pays plus nu que la terre polaire — Ni bêtes, ni ruisseaux, ni verdure, ni bois!
Or il n'est pas d'horreur au monde qui surpasse La froide cruauté de ce soleil de glace Et cette immense nuit semblable au vieux Chaos; ..."
How does it work, lvl dependant? *drools* Oh well, anyhow, it's gonna be for NWN2...
Yeah, level dependant.
"Smite Evil (Su): Once per day, a paladin may attempt to smite evil with one normal melee attack. She adds her Charisma bonus (if any) to her attack roll and deals 1 extra point of damage per paladin level. If the paladin accidentally smites a creature that is not evil, the smite has no effect, but the ability is still used up for that day. At 5th level, and at every five levels thereafter, the paladin may smite evil one additional time per day, as indicated on Table: The Paladin, to a maximum of five times per day at 20th level.#
Epic:
"Smite Evil (Su): The epic paladin adds his or her class level to damage with any smite evil attack, as normal. He or she can smite one additional time per day for every five levels higher than 20th."
Correct. If you suck at maths, that's 9/day, unless you can still get the extra smiting.
If you drop WS/EWS, Kail, you won't lose much else. I think I ended 39 AB, 18 STR and 26CHA. No EWS, but GrSmite X. _________________ Dragonlance ROH is back, better than before! and I spend a little time here WoG
Correct. If you suck at maths, that's 9/day, unless you can still get the extra smiting.
AFAIK there's no Extra Smiting in 3.5e _________________ "... C'est un pays plus nu que la terre polaire — Ni bêtes, ni ruisseaux, ni verdure, ni bois!
Or il n'est pas d'horreur au monde qui surpasse La froide cruauté de ce soleil de glace Et cette immense nuit semblable au vieux Chaos; ..."
If you drop WS/EWS, Kail, you won't lose much else. I think I ended 39 AB, 18 STR and 26CHA. No EWS, but GrSmite X.
Doh, you're right! WS/EWS just sticked in my mind and didn't want to get out or to even show up as something it could be done without I'm getting obsessed by good base damage output lately...
Cheers, Kail _________________ Looking for a realm of adventure? Check out World of Greyhawk, you won't regret it.
Edited By Kail Pendragon on 06/05/06 12:39
Here's the Great Smite X version.
No WS/EWS (-6 dmg per hit) but +144 dmg on a smite (+138 counting in the lack of WS/EWS). If you think you can do without 43 skillpoints and one preepic feat (Extend Spell?) start INT 10 STR 15, move the 2nd FTR lvl into epic getting EWF with it and Great STR I with the freed up general feat slot, for a final STR 18, AB 38. Otherwise start INT 10, CON 10, STR 16 and leave the feats as they are now.
Paladin(26), Champion of Torm(10), Fighter(4) Human, Lawful Good
LEVELING GUIDE 01: Fighter(1): Power Attack, Weapon Focus, Knockdown 02: Fighter(2): Blind Fight 03: Paladin(1): Toughness 04: Paladin(2): CHA+1, {Smite Evil}, (CHA=17) 05: Paladin(3) 06: Paladin(4): Divine Shield 07: Paladin(5) 08: Paladin(6): CHA+1, (CHA=18) 09: Paladin(7): Improved Critical 10: Paladin(8) 11: Paladin(9) 12: Paladin(10): CHA+1, Extra Smiting, (CHA=19) 13: Paladin(11) 14: Paladin(12) 15: Paladin(13): Extend Spell 16: Paladin(14): CHA+1, (CHA=20) 17: Paladin(15) 18: Paladin(16): Divine Might 19: Paladin(17) 20: Paladin(18): CHA+1, (CHA=21) 21: Fighter(3): Epic Weapon Focus 22: Fighter(4): Epic Prowess 23: Paladin(19) 24: Paladin(20): CHA+1, Great Charisma I, (CHA=23) 25: Paladin(21) 26: Paladin(22) 27: Paladin(23): Great Charisma II, Armor Skin, (CHA=24) 28: Paladin(24): CHA+1, (CHA=25) 29: Paladin(25) 30: Champion of Torm(1): Great Smite I 31: Champion of Torm(2): Great Smite II 32: Champion of Torm(3): CHA+1, (CHA=26) 33: Champion of Torm(4): Great Smite III, Great Smite IV 34: Champion of Torm(5) 35: Champion of Torm(6): Great Smite V 36: Champion of Torm(7): STR+1, Great Smite VI, (STR=15) 37: Champion of Torm(8): Great Smite VII 38: Champion of Torm(9) 39: Champion of Torm(10): Great Smite VIII, Great Smite IX 40: Paladin(26): STR+1, Great Smite X, (STR=16)
Cheers, Kail _________________ Looking for a realm of adventure? Check out World of Greyhawk, you won't regret it.
Edited By Kail Pendragon on 06/05/06 20:03
Its late. I'm tired. When I'm tired I make an *** out of myself. But here it goes.
What is the point of fighter in that build if it doesn't take the WS and EWS feats? Isn't that the whole point of 4 fighter levels? Sometimes its used to grant a higher AB or a 4th attack, as well as meating the prerequisits for the Weapon Master class. But none of those things are needed in this build, so whats the point?
Wouldn't those fighter levels be better spent in extra Paladin for spell duration and additional Smite Damage, or Champion of Torm for better saves, Wrath, and Smite Damage? If its a Smite Damage focussed build then the Paladin and/or CoT levels would serve better than 4 Fighter levels that don't even give the Weapon Specializations.
So.. as I said, I'm tired and potentially stupid. But I really dont see the point. CoT and Paladin give the same AB and better saves. CoT even gives the same feats and the same amount of them... I dont get it! Why fighter! Gah!
Epic CoT gets bonus feats every 4 lvls not every 2 and Fighter gets a bonus feat at first lvl too, so Fighter nets you 2 more feats (3 vs 1) both compared to paladin and CoT. Spell duration is good enough with 26 Pal lvls I'd say and you're already undispellable. Divine Wrath increases every 5 lvls so CoT 14 wouldn't improve it, but it would just improve saves by +2.
Cheers, Kail _________________ To hear the sound of Freedom, many gave their lives They fought for you and me Those memories will always live inside us, and now it's our time to be free
Edited By Kail Pendragon on 06/06/06 01:40
Well, I saw that you got the 3rd feat at first level, so I guess fighter gains you some extra feats. But is the build that feat starved that it would sacrifice the Saves, Spell Duration, and Smite Damage? Meh... I guess 2 feats would make a difference considering you spend 10 feats on Smites, and likely some in Greater Charisma for the Smites... so I suppose its justified. I guess it would be preference.
Try looking at it from this angle:
What two feats would you give up? Then ask yourself if sacrificing those two feats is worth:
1) With more CoT levels, +2 to saves and +40 on Smite damage, which is only useable 3 times per rest.
2) With more Pally levels, 4 more rounds or turns duration on spells (the hour-long buffs are completely negligable, as there's practically no difference between 26 hours and 30 hours. The same argument could possibly be made for turn duration spells as well) and +40 on Smite damage.
Personally, I'd say the feats are more valuable.
See it this way: those two feats mean +1 AB, +2 AC (EP and AS). Without Fighter one has to drop them if you want to achieve Great Smite X. The preepic feats are even less than what I'd like to have actually, although I get all the basic stuff. IKD and Called Shot would not have hurted anyhow, for example.
Anyhow, the point of the last version was to get Great Smite X with a playable build with the best AB and AC possible and that's what it does.
A matter of preference? Ultimately yes, as always. If you prefer to go for Paladin 30 or CoT 14 then do it. Out of interest: which feats would you give up?
As for me I feel Smite damage is already good enough, saves too but I could surely do with a little more AB and AC. Personally I'd go with the Great Smite VI version with WS/EWS, I like my base damage output to be as good as possible.
Cheers, Kail _________________ To hear the sound of Freedom, many gave their lives They fought for you and me Those memories will always live inside us, and now it's our time to be free
Meh... Depends where I'm playing. I suppose its all about the rest rules. If its only 3 smites a day and you cant rest often then I would take knockdown like you did, in order to help playability. But if its some arena server where I can rest at will and all my foes are evil because I am on the good team, then I wouldnt take knockdown since my smites are 1 shot kills. I would rather take the Epic Weapon Specialization if I was taking fighter at all, otherwise I would raise my saves incase of them filthy mage-types!
Just preference. But on a PW server or something along those lines, I would take fighter and knockdown for playability and the capability to stand even when fighting a non-evil thingy.
Indeed, the environment will dictate some choices. I generally build with PWs in mind and I like my characters to be as playable as possible given what I want to achieve. I consider rest restrictions to be the standard, cause without them it gets much less challenging.
Cheers, Kail _________________ To hear the sound of Freedom, many gave their lives They fought for you and me Those memories will always live inside us, and now it's our time to be free
I'm terribly sorry to dig this up from the past, but I've officially decided that rather than taking those Fighter levels, I would take Rogue.
*nods* I was compelled to share that with you all.
UMD and Tumble would be pretty kick-*** with this build. Some extra AC, and the ability to use scrolls... very valuable no matter what enviroment you play in!
...Sorry
Don't forget Set Traps _________________ Heavy metal Or no metal at all Whimps and posers Leave the hall!
There are rarely any immunities on players, though a few high level monsters have an undead class.
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