Hey all, new to the guild and so far I love all the info here, excellent work!
I am new to all this and need some help: The specifics are: (I think you will find these familiar) ______________ -Level 30 is the maximum -No Weapons or Armour beyond +3 -No Perma-Haste or True Sight on items -Very few spells are capped -Minimum of 3 levels per class taken (Each new class MUST take 3 levels together) -No alignment shifts -No attribute-bonus items beyond +1 each -RDD requires 12 levels of Sorc or Bard -Shadowdancer is disallowed -No Dev Crit ---------------
And the server supports subraces of many varieties. I am looking to get the most powerful Mage possible within these parameters, and I can use various races to help support this if useful(IE an Aasimar has +2 Wis and +2 Cha; Drow is +2 int, etc).
Anyone have some ideas on what to work with?
Thanks in advance! _________________ -4SakN "never kiss a girl whose brothers have knife scars." "never gamble without knowing a back way out." -Robert Jordan
Edited By 4SakN on 07/07/06 11:19
I'd try my luck with an Aasimar Sorcerer. _________________ "With Europe liberated, the people of the world turned their attention to that old devil, the United States of America [...] We taught that monster of old the true meaning of freedom." Star Wreck
should I stay pure sorcerer considering there are only 30 levels, or would a combo be useful? _________________ -4SakN
The Moonshae Isles - Forgotten Realms A Role Play, Low Magic world
Quote: Posted 07/07/06 11:45:34 (GMT) -- 4SakN
should I stay pure sorcerer considering there are only 30 levels, or would a combo be useful?
If you think you want better save, you could consider Sorcerer 27/Paladin 3. For Evasion, Sorcerer 24/Paladin 3/Monk 3 (note XP penalty 20%, Paladin's favoured for Aasimar).
It is, however, worth noting that you get bonus feats at Sorcerer 23, 26 and 29. So, plan what feats you need and decide whether or not it's worth sacrificing the sor bonus feats. _________________ "With Europe liberated, the people of the world turned their attention to that old devil, the United States of America [...] We taught that monster of old the true meaning of freedom." Star Wreck
Edited By FinneousPJ on 07/07/06 12:06
Ok, good info thanks! _________________ -4SakN
The Moonshae Isles - Forgotten Realms A Role Play, Low Magic world
OK,
I really like the idea of a Ki Master (Sorcerer Monk) so I think I will try to come up with a good build off of this. I am trying to work out the build tools, but if anyone has some ideas on how to maximize it, please feel free _________________ -4SakN "never kiss a girl whose brothers have knife scars." "never gamble without knowing a back way out." -Robert Jordan
Quote: Posted 07/07/06 13:40:18 (GMT) -- 4SakN
OK,
I really like the idea of a Ki Master (Sorcerer Monk) so I think I will try to come up with a good build off of this. I am trying to work out the build tools, but if anyone has some ideas on how to maximize it, please feel free
I wouldn't use any tools since I don't think any of them include Aasimar and such Nevertheless feel free to post your build here when you get it done and we'll have a look at it. _________________ "With Europe liberated, the people of the world turned their attention to that old devil, the United States of America [...] We taught that monster of old the true meaning of freedom." Star Wreck
I will thanks, and the aasimar adjustments on the server I play are added as bonuses rather than racial adjustments so it won't effect the base build Just give a bonus to the outcome _________________ -4SakN
The Moonshae Isles - Forgotten Realms A Role Play, Low Magic world
4SakN, I wouldn't go with the Paladin/Sorceror, considering Arelith already has Keth and Abel who are essentially the same builds. One with Blackgaurd as an alternative however. You may be better off trying your luck with the Monk, as I dont know of many who involved it with Sorc much on this server.
That is only of uniqueness of builds matter to you. Otherwise do it. It is near unstopable on the server.
Tee Hee you didn't expect a fellow player did you!? I have asked for many a build with the same server requirements. Only, I changed my name for this guild. You made it too obvious. Foolish person.
For Arelith though, my opinion would be to create a a caster that can hold its own for a small while without alot of buffs. My experience, is that combat is often forces on me and you may want to be able to take a small beating when you didn't have time to buff. High CON would be preferable as your secondary attribute IMHO. T'would suck if all of a sudden you get ambushed and you are left to say 'Oh no I am useless now!' But I guess that draws back to how you play the build.
Good luck.
(Realizes he wasnt much helpful, but was compelled to post because he gets all gooey inside when he sees a fellow Arelith player))
I knew you were here, I copied your list of server requirements...
Thanks, I am trying to avoid the Sorc/Pally and the Sorc/BG builds, but I want to have a useful Mage with some fighting ability. So yeah, I think I am going to work with Sorc monk and see what kind of Ki Master I can develop Any help is appreciated! _________________ -4SakN
The Moonshae Isles - Forgotten Realms A Role Play, Low Magic world
I am not the best with builds, but if you break it down slightly more specifiacally, I might be of some use.
Do you want it to have a Melee presence? Or is the Monk just for the AC without Spell Failure? How much Monk are you looking for? More than 10, or is it primarily an offensive caster?
Stuff like that is useful.
I wouldn't get Monk if you don't get Paladin. What use is Evasion with a poor Reflex save? Sure, you get Tumble and Wis AC but casters don't even need the AC. If you're in melee you're already in trouble -- and yet, Epic Warding > AC
Have to admit, though, that "high-AC" casters do exist. In low magic, however, Monk w/ robes isn't the way to. You can't afford to waste points in Wisdom. AutoStill is what you want. _________________ "With Europe liberated, the people of the world turned their attention to that old devil, the United States of America [...] We taught that monster of old the true meaning of freedom." Star Wreck
I Dunno, so far I think he is a wimp... But I like the idea if you all could tell me how to make it work better?
My thought is a Monk who focuses more inward, becoming able to Channel his Ki energies into "Magic" effects. So the sorcerer levels would be role played as powers he develops and able to project onto the world; not as drawing on the weave... But he is wimpy...
I Dunno, so far I think he is a wimp... But I like the idea if you all could tell me how to make it work better?
My thought is a Monk who focuses more inward, becoming able to Channel his Ki energies into "Magic" effects. So the sorcerer levels would be role played as powers he develops and able to project onto the world; not as drawing on the weave... But he is wimpy...
If you want him to be a tougher caster, Sor 27/Mnk 3. Tougher melee, hmm -- that 3 level rule is really annoying, you can't get 9th level spells with Sor 17/Rdd10/Mnk 3! I'd probably switch over to Wizard to get a better spell selection and more feats for the more melee-oriented fellow. Wiz/Ftr/Mnk maybe. _________________ "With Europe liberated, the people of the world turned their attention to that old devil, the United States of America [...] We taught that monster of old the true meaning of freedom." Star Wreck
And as for the build you posted: focus on both WIS and CHA along with that level spread is a real no-no from the powergamer's perspective. _________________ "With Europe liberated, the people of the world turned their attention to that old devil, the United States of America [...] We taught that monster of old the true meaning of freedom." Star Wreck
Quote: Posted 07/07/06 16:33:00 (GMT) -- 4SakN
My thought is a Monk who focuses more inward, becoming able to Channel his Ki energies into "Magic" effects.
thats a neat concept. I cant really help you with the build but, what server is this?
thanks _________________ They were all dead. The final gunshot was an exclamation mark to everything that had led up to this point. I released my finger from the trigger. And then it was all over. The storm seemed to lose its frenzy. The ragged clouds gave way to the stars above.
the server is Arelith (I hope it is ok to post that?)
Thanks for the help Finneous, could you (or anyone else if you feel interested, the more help the merrier ) help me out with the level spread to make it work better? I don't mind switching to wiz if it will help better, and I don't mind less monk levels (but I would like to keep to level 6 monk if possible for the automatic knockdowns ) And I would like to keep level 9 spells if possible as well.
I am trying to get the concept here, but i don't know the intracacies of building very well
Thanks!
P.S. -
He doesn't have to be the ultimate Powerbuild either, but if he can hold his own against the standard stuff I would be happy (This is an RP world so PvP happens, but isn't the end-all of it )
Thanks again _________________ -4SakN "never kiss a girl whose brothers have knife scars." "never gamble without knowing a back way out." -Robert Jordan
Edited By 4SakN on 07/08/06 18:00
Hey 4SakN, what exactly is it that you are looking for RP wise in this build? I take it you want a Fighting Caster of some sort for the build aspect, but for the character? The manifestation of Spell Power through Ki is interesting, but if you are looking for perhaps a different angle of it, I can help.
I have a Fighter/Wizard/Weapon Master that gets over 40AB and Mid-High 40's in AC with some common server found items of Arelith. Uses Heavy Armour so you would have to buff before equiping yourself, but you can get a huge Critical Range, Improved Knockdown, 4th level Spells and a +4 Weapon with some nice Flame. It is a pretty good Melee and has 36AB unbuffed with its chosen Weapon.
The RP angle could be similar to Ki, as weapon masters have a similar enegy in the sense that they get so tuned with their blade, that near magical effects can take place. This covers things like Flame Weapon, Greater Magic Weapon, Keen Edge... the nice stuff. But it is your RP spin to chose. If you are still interested, I will write the build down and post it here.
For those that are interested, it is a: Fighter 5/ Wizard 12/ Weapon Master 13.
I will post the details if asked. Otherwise, too lazy to go through it all because I don't perticularily like Wizard Weapon Masters for some reason.
Quote: I am looking to get the most powerful Mage possible within these parameters
Yes, he's wimpy, because all his feats are wrong man!
First, Monk 12 gives you nothing useful, your SR is 22 which is too low for casters, and it can't be increased. Monk 5 gives you 1 AC, whatever amount over that is a waste as it decreases spellcasting power, (and why do you want IKD? caster's don't use it and you need high AB for it to work correctly, not useful for a caster) you will need some DCs, I don't know exacltly how spells are on your server, Okembour has told about some changes to Implosion and such, so at least Focus on Evocation should give an offensive working DC for good damage, you should take Spell Focus feats on at least 1 school, I like Evocation, but Necromancy seems popular.
Second, you're taking the feat line of a Weapon Master, WHY!? Expertise is OK, and probably you should also take Improved Expertise, but forget completely of Dodge, Mobility, Spring Attack and Whirlwind Attack, completely useless feats. Put Toughness on pre-epic, forget Weapon Focus, and actually, I think you could take Spell penetration feats too... Combat casting isn't too great, it will just give Concentration bonus, so throw it away and take Empowered Spell, also fit Extended spell somewhere around, I suggest you buff Extended Haste all the time (double casting speed), Extended Mestil's is also very useful.
You want AC? at least take Armor Skin.
I've always prefered Wizard over Sorcerer because you get a bonus feats every 5 levels, you can fit Metamagics and Focuses there easily, as well as Epic Focuses and Great INT on epics. Besides, Wizards need INT, which also give you nice skillspoints, for a Sorcerer who uses CHA Paladin is a nice choice.
Pffft, for such a low magical server, Premonition can only be trespassed by a buffed Cleric or Wizard/Sorcerer with GMW, casting should be strong.
Sorry if I am too mean... but that build sucks.
EDIT: All that goes directly with the quote, if you want your caster to have melee prescence, there are some other things to consider, such as Blind-Fight and Weapon Focus, which are useless on a pure caster, GMW and Flame Weapon will add greatly (Tenser's Transformation is very powerful if you're willing to give up casting for the duration of the spell, use it, and be a strong melee), so I would suggest a Monk 3 / Fighter 6 / Wizard 21 or Monk 5 / Fighter 5 / Wizard 20 for Ki casting concepts.
Edited By Thaxll'ssyllia on 07/08/06 22:43
No harm mate, I know it sucks
I dunno much about building, that is why I was lookin for help No worries, I have kind of given up on this as it seems that it just won't work with only 30 levels... _________________ -4SakN "never kiss a girl whose brothers have knife scars." "never gamble without knowing a back way out." -Robert Jordan
What about the Wizard/Fighter/Weaponmaster?
Decent build with both Melee and Minor Casting.
So intuned with his blade, that he manifests near-magical abilites. (Coating it in flame, making it sharper, etc.)
Yes, No?
Yeah I am thinking aobut that one show me what you got? _________________ -4SakN "never kiss a girl whose brothers have knife scars." "never gamble without knowing a back way out." -Robert Jordan
****ing ****!!
I just posted the build, but the post was deleted. God! Stupid system error! I gave you all the details and everything! ****!!
Alright. I am going to post it again because I shouldn't just leave you hanging due to some stupid error, but I won't include all the Strategies, Advantages, Disadvantages or any of that unless you ask on some further date. Not tonight.
Here it goes: (Oh, by the way, it has been a long time since I actually tested this build. Some of the information may be wrong as my memory isn't very good).
Will post strategies, advantages, and disadvantages later. Sorry.
Questions?
Advantages/Strategies:
-Darkness and Ultravision make for good spell choices. Selecting these do not harm your chances of getting other liked spells, because as a Wizard you get a huge selection. The advantage of Darkness is that, with Ultravision, you can cast it on yourself and anyone attacking you will have an immediate disadvantage unless they have an effect that allows them to see through magical darkness as well. The major bonus is, you can cast this without spell failure being a factor, which allows you to use it even in the middle of combat, while you are fully equiped.
-You get a full attack schedual just as a Fighter would. Four attacks per round, without Haste, and an additional Fifth when buffed with said spell. This is very nice considering you have such a huge Critical Threat Range, and five chances to land one every six seconds. The Fighter levels also give you the benifit of Epic Weapon Specialization, which is another 4 damage per round. This never hurts, especially since you don't have to buff for it or prepair... it is always there for you and will easily become 12 damage with your x3 Multiplier on any 10 or higher roll.
-You can, without much sacrifice, get all three Damage Shields. Mestils, Elemental, and Death Armour make for good defensive options when up against a Melee-Oriented opponent. Your AC is not overly high, so they will not have much trouble hitting you, but you can be assured that they will not enjoy having to touch you.
-You may have the most trouble with True Mages. They can fling spells at you from far enough away that your Scimitar is not at all troublesome to them. It is because of this that you should take Lesser Missile Storm, Lesser Spell Mantle, and Lesser Spell Breach. Yes, they are all the 'Lesser' versions, but they will still allow you the edge you need to mop the floor with an enemy spellcaster. With your Spell Mantle you can shrug off one or two Missile Storms, and buy yourself enough time to send out one or two Spell Breaches and make it safe for you to head in and bash him to death over the head. If it really isn't safe enough to enter Melee though, you can always fall back on a nice Missile Storm, and deal some unstopable damage to your foes.
-Tactical advantages are your friend. If you play smart, and enter combat on your own terms, you will surely win. Cast Expedius Retreat and Improved Invisibilty on yourself, and run towards your oppenent faster than they can hope to get away. And even if they were fast enough to escape, they shouldn't be able to see you unless they know you are coming. In most cases however, you should catch them off gaurd and fire an Improved Knockdown at them right off the bat, which will spell instant death before they know you are there.
-Truestrike will also be useful for you. A +20 to your Attack Roll is like a -20 to their AC and Discipline, which will mean your Knockdown is sure to hit, and sure to hamper your oppenent which is essentially a +4 to all your next attacks, because the opponent is prone. From here, you can do just about all you want, and is a definite good time for your Maximized Damage Strikes, which you have plenty of. This strategy works well when coupled with the above one. If you are speeding at your enemy, completly invisibile, with a +20 to your Attack Roll, they will be flat-footed and absolutely going to fall to your Knockdown. Again though, the major advantage is that this spell can be cast in Heavy Armour, and you can use it in the middle of combat if need be.
-Basically, your only good Skill Choices are Spot, Listen, Discipline, Spellcraft, and Concentration and luckily you have just enough Skill Points to maximize your ranks in all of them. This will get you +5 to all Saves against spells, a good chance to detect stupid Pick Pockets, a good shot at finding hidden opponents, high resistance to Taunt, Knockdown, Disarm, Called Shots, and Spell Failure from Attacks of Opportunity. Such things are all detriments to you, and luckily you will have +33 to all of your opposed rolls against them. Even more with some basic magic items.
-Your Saving Throws are not high. Luckily though, you have Lesser Mind Blank as an option, which renders you immune to Mind Affecting spells, as well as Protection from Alignment which does the same. This will help you with spells vs. your Will Save. Your Spellcraft ranks will also help you where you are weak and give you a +5 bonus to all. Unfortunatly, you do not get Death Ward or immunity to Death Effects. This will be hard to cope with, however, a Spell Mantle should hold you off until you can close in on the caster. Always keep one or two fo those ready for use.
-Your damage output will cut through Damage Reduction very quickly. Doing over 80 damage on a Critical is very, very effective at making up for the absense of a +5 weapon. Since you do not naturally pass through things like Stoneskin with your +4 Weapon, you will have to rely on your steady damage output, which should still do the job quickly enough. And without DR, your oppenents will get cut up quite fast with your 20-30 damage per hit, and 70-85 on a Critical with five attacks per round, and a 50% chance at threatening a Critical everytime.
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Disadvantages and Concerns:
-Buffing takes time. It sucks. I hate it. If you are caught completely off-gaurd, unawair that an attack is about to happen, you will not have time to buff yourself and you will likely be on a lesser tier to your opponent. The only conselation I can give you is that your unbuffed AB is still formidable; though your AC and HP will suffer, as will your damage output. I would suggest at this time, that you cast Expedius Retreat and take it from there. Leave, buff, and return for vengeance. Luckily though, you buff less than a Pure Mage or a Battle Cleric, and you will mantain an edge over such foes. A heavy Melee or Archer though, will be troublesome unless you are good at entering on your own terms.
-Playability may be rough. I do not know, because I am pretty ignorant when it comes to XP penalties and how hard something will be to play while at a certain level. You will have to try it out for yourself to see, though if you have any patience, and you can stick through it, you will have a pretty good result in the end. I do know one thing though, and that is that, as a human, you do not suffer as much a penalty as you otherwise would.
-You will not be able to use ranged weapons with any effective outcome. It will be pathetic. Don't bother. However, this is why I selected Lesser Missile Storm as a spell; you get some nice unstopable damage that can strike at quite a distance which should do the job if you absolutely cannot approach the foe for melee.
-Your bane, and number one problem in an enemy, is their ability to use a ranged weapon. Especially Arcane Archers. They will beat your AC, and not regret it by running into your Damage Shields. If they are crafty, you will not be able to get to them, because they as well will have Expedius Retreat. Your only hope is to cast Improved Invisibilty. They shouldn't have True Sight because they likely have the bare minimum of caster levels to achieve the Arcane Archer PRC.
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Without a doubt, I made an error somewhere in my above posts, or at the very least, left something important out. So if you have any questions, concerns, or anything to ask or add, just tell me and I will see to it.
Also, if you have any concerns for PvP, ask here as well. If you are curious how this build would fair in a perticular situation, post the situation and I can tell you what you should do. This build is absolutely full of tactical ways to get yourself out of trouble, or defeat trouble that simply cannot be avoided.
It is also likely that I forgot the weaknesses of the build, so if anyone has any that have been noticed, post here too. Would suck if 4SakN went out and made this build, and found out it was way weaker than I made it out to be. So any information is helpful.
Toodles.
You could easily end WM at 7 and get more fighter and wizard levels. WM from 8-13 only gives 1 AB and 1 epic feat. You can take 2 fighter pre-epic over wizard to preserve AB(and gain a feat), and 2 epic to get your epic feat. Still room for 2 more levels, either in wizard or fighter for just about no cost. _________________ I see the fear you have inside, you can run but never hide. I will hunt you down and tear you limb from limb.
I run the Pre-Epic Builders guild. Join and share your experience.
Wow. How bluntly obvious.
Thank you for pointing out my stupid, stupid short-sighted views on this build. Yeesh. Terrible!
Seriously man... I can't believe I didn't think.
Thanks
But I am definetly not writing it all out again. 4SakN can surely incorperate what you said and use it well enough. If of course this build will even be used.
It is quite nice, and I think I will be; Thanks to both of you! _________________ -4SakN
The Moonshae Isles - Forgotten Realms A Role Play, Low Magic world
Nevertheless feel free to post your build here when you get it done and we'll have a look at it.
Any help is appreciated!
