I was wondering if I could get some help making a build that utilizes both the Assassin's Death Attack and the Ranger's Bane of Enemies. First, for my build to work the way I want it to (dex-based), I need to know if Death Attack can be used with ranged weapons. If not, then I'll work around it with another weapon type.
My biggest road block is knowing when to choose certain levels in order to maximize the feats/skills/etc I can get out of the build. Also, I'm not really clear on how many levels to take in which class. I know that the damage dealt by Death Attack increases with the more levels of Assassin you take, but when does it start to get pointless to take more levels in it? Also, I know I need at least 20 levels in Ranger to get 5 favored enemies (as far as I know) so that I can get Bane of Enemies. Is there an advantage to taking more than 20 levels in Ranger for this buid?
Once I get this straightened out a little, I'll post my build to have it critiqued. (probably more like torn apart ) I know this is a little vague, but I hope I can get some help anyways. If it helps any, I intend to play this PvM up to level 40, probably as an Elf. (again, if I need to change from dex-based, I may go Human instead)
Thanks in advance for any help/suggestions! _________________ If all else fails, just nod and smile.
Couple of points:
1) BoE requires Epic Ranger, i.e. 21st level minimum 2) DA works with Ranged Weapons 3) I'd suggest a Ranger/Assassin/SD or Ranger/Assassin/Rogue, to get Epic Dodge (SD requires 10 levels, Rogue 13) _________________ "With Europe liberated, the people of the world turned their attention to that old devil, the United States of America [...] We taught that monster of old the true meaning of freedom." Star Wreck
OK, good, so I can go with a dex-based build. So, for starters, I'll work on a 21/10/9 Ranger/SD/Assassin build and play with the levelling a bit. Does it matter what order I level them, other than how qwuickly I get BoE?
Thanks for the help, BTW. _________________ If all else fails, just nod and smile.
It really depends on what you want to focus on. If you want a high AB, then go heavy on the Ranger pre-epic. If you want Epic Dodge ASAP then you have to go heavy on Rogue/SD right away.
Is this a build that will be played up to 40, or instant 40? Planning for survival as you level is different than just focusing on a lvl 40 build.
Giving it more thought, I wonder why you want to combine Assassin and Ranger. Both classes get better the more levels you take, so it really doesn't work that great. Your DA DC will be ridiculously low with 9 Assassin levels, 19 +INT modifier. I'd rather go with Rogue than Assassin, for example check my Halfling Woodsman build. _________________ "With Europe liberated, the people of the world turned their attention to that old devil, the United States of America [...] We taught that monster of old the true meaning of freedom." Star Wreck
Your damage bous to your FE is tie to your RGR levels as well. +1 at level 1, +2 at level 5, and +1 every 5 levels thereafter. Therefore, it's of more utility to take as many RGR levels as you can in order to get the best damage.
As Finn noted, both RGR and Assn need a lot of levels to be effective. I'd advise either dropping Assn for Rogue (as suggested), or taking only a few RGR levels and concentrating on Assn (something like the Dark Stalker build). _________________ This signature will self-destruct in 5 seconds...
OK, it kind of seemed like it was a bit of a stretch trying to fit in a bunch of ranger and assassin levels. Since DA can be used with ranged weapons, I guess I really don't need to focus much on BoE. I would like to take some ranger levels early so I can get the FEs and the animal companion, but we'll see how that all works out.
To answer your question, Bromium, this will be a build that is played up to level 40, so I am looking to be able to survive well during the middle levels. Also, I am going to be relying on high DA damage and high AB to be able to hit most characters. Also, to stay alive, I will be relying on enemies not being able to see/hit me at all. Hopefully I can get my saving throws up there as well, but I'll worry about that once I get my character straightened out.
So, it looks like I will be making a character more along the lines of a 24/10/6 Assassin/SD/Ranger build. This way, I will have a better DA, 2 FEs, and an Animal Companion. Thanks again to everyone for your help, and please let me know anything else you're thinking about how this is set up so far. Since I also want to get most defensive feats sort of early so I can survive, as well as get DA fairly early so I can start dealing more damage, I would appreciate some suggestions on how to do that. _________________ If all else fails, just nod and smile.
Here's one I posted in the General forum a couple days ago. It's based on the Dark Stalker build and is tweaked to the specs of a guy that wanted it for his server. It's not quite the level split you mentioned, but it's close at RGR 10/SD 10/Assn 20:
This has a couple fewer Assn levels than the Dark Stalker, and a slightly lower INT (so fewer skill points). However, you'll get 278 skill points, which is enough for:
Tumble: 40 Hide: 43 Move: 43 Discipline: 42 UMD: 41 with 69 left to put into Open Lock, Search, Disable, and Set Trap. If you want more points, drop CON and STR to 10 and raise INT to 16 for 43 more.
You get Epic Skill Focus Discipline for a modified score of 53, which should be enough to make him able to withstand a lot of KD/Disarm/Called Shot attempts.
The RGR 10 feat is used to pick up Epic Prowess instead of a FE.
Your final unbuffed AB with two mundane small weapons would be:
+40/+35/+30/+25 +40/+35
Your unbuffed Death Attack DC at level 40 will be 32.
If you don't care about getting Discipline and want to drop the 4 extra RGR levels, it's not problem. Just take Epic Prowess at level 36 instead of ESF:Discipline. This will give you a Death Attack DC of 36 and another Assn epic bonus feat at Assn level 22 (Do Not choose Improved Sneak Attack as that bonus feat!!! It does not work if your character does not have at least 1 Rogue or 4 Blackguard levels)
If you want to go with Human instead, set it up this way:
STR: 10 DEX: 18 CON: 10 INT: 14 WIS: 12 CHA: 8
Because it's Human, you'll get 43 more skill points (which may solve a skills dilemma) and you'll also get an extra feat at level 1. Take Toughness, a save booster, or move Blind Fight up and take Imp Critical where I have Blind Fight. _________________ This signature will self-destruct in 5 seconds...
Thanks for the help, yet again. I've modified the build a little, taking only 6 Ranger classes, not using Discipline, and not using Knockdown. (that doesn't work for shortbow attacks, does it?) Here is what I came up with, please let me know anything I should change:
The hitpoints look kind of low, but I guess I'll worry about that if anything ever hits me. The one thing I'm worried about is the Fort and Will saving throws, they look like they could use some work. Thanks again for everyone's help, and any more suggestions are welcome and appreciated! _________________ If all else fails, just nod and smile.
No, KD does not work with a ranged weapon.
A few things: If you're using a bow, why not a longbow? Also, I highly recommend you pick up Point Blank Shot and Rapid Shot. If you're Hasted, this will give you 6 attacks per round with your bow.
The Fort and Will saves are woeful, but you can pretty much cover Will saves with your UMD (scrolls of Prot fr Evil/Good, Clarity, Mind Blank, etc). The Fort save could be bolstered with the Epic Fort feat (more about that in a minute).
You're finishing with an odd-numbered ability (35 DEX), which is a bit of a waste. I recommend dropping the GRT DEX V feat at level 39 and replacing it with Epic Fortitude or Armor Skin (or something else if you want).
INT 15 does nothing for you. Drop it to 14 and invest those 2 extra points in either CON or STR. (If it matters to you, the -1 modifier from your low STR will mean -1 damage from your arrows)
Ditch Spring Attack. With your high Tumble, it's useless to you.
Leave Tumble at 40 ranks. You get +1 bonus to AC for every 5 base ranks (modified ranks don't count, only what you've actually invested in the skill), so more than 40 ranks is wasted.
Drop UMD to 41 ranks. UMD works on groups of 5 modified ranks, so you're wasting 2 points there.
Trap Skills:
Epic traps have a Set DC of 65, a Detect DC of 43, and a Disarm DC of 58. If you're not worried about them then the next highest DC is for Deadly traps. To disarm them, you need a modified score of 36 for the highest DC of Deadly trap, so take your Disable to 32 ranks (saves you a couple more points).
The highest Set Trap DC of Deadly traps is 45 for a deadly gas trap, so you'll want 25 ranks (with Take 20) in that skill to be able to set them. If you don't care about that specific trap, the next highest DC is 35 for a number of Deadly traps.
If you want to at least be able to guarantee you'll detect epic traps, you'll need 39 ranks in Search.
***One last note: you have DEX 30 by level 32. You could pick up Slf Concealment V with this character if you want to. That would mean you wouldn't have room for ESF:Hide though, although you could opt for ESF:Hide and SC IV. Just a thought. (Or SC V and Invisibility to cover the Hide deficit) _________________ This signature will self-destruct in 5 seconds...
Edited By Cinnabar Din on 07/22/06 17:50
Thanks again, Cinnabar. I've made some of the changes you suggested, and this is what I came up with:
I decided to take Improved Crit instead of spring attack since I really couldn't find a way to queeze in any other epic feats (e.g. armor skin). I changed the skill points around as you suggested, also. Any other suggestions, or does this look pretty good to start testing? _________________ If all else fails, just nod and smile.
Looks pretty good. Only two further tweaks for you to consider:
1) Add 2 more points to Disable. With 'take 20', that will give you a 58, which means you can disarm epic traps.
2) I'd drop Imp Crit and Called shot to pick up Point Blank Shot and Rapid Shot. With PBS, instead of the -4 penalty to hit at close range, you actually get +1 to hit anddamage when close up. Rapid Shot gives you -2 to hit on all attacks*, but gives you an extra attack per round at full AB. With Haste, that's 6 attacks per round, 3 of them at full AB.
*remember, this can be alleviated by PBS's +1 at close range. _________________ This signature will self-destruct in 5 seconds...
Cool, I made the changes you suggested, and now I'll post the build to have others critique it. Tanks for all your help, especially for explaining the details of why you suggested the various changes. Hopefully I won't need as much help with my next build, though. _________________ If all else fails, just nod and smile.
No problem. Glad to help. Hope it works out well for you. _________________ This signature will self-destruct in 5 seconds...
Quote: Posted 07/22/06 20:23:24 (GMT) -- Cinnabar Din
Looks pretty good. Only two further tweaks for you to consider:
1) Add 2 more points to Disable. With 'take 20', that will give you a 58, which means you can disarm epic traps.
Isn't there something about only Rogues can disarm high level traps over a certain DC?
edit:
Yup, only rogues can disarm a trap over DC 35. (So says the Grimoire.)
Edited By Bromium on 07/24/06 16:31
Crap! Good catch Bromium. Sorry, Dumediat, I believe I steered you wrong on the trap skills. I'm too used to using Rogue I guess. _________________ This signature will self-destruct in 5 seconds...
I'm almost sure the Assasin levels counter that. They are basically an extention of the Rogue, attaining most of the primary abilities of it, as well as the same fundamental skills. I think it would make sense at least. Don't quote me though.
) I know this is a little vague, but I hope I can get some help anyways. If it helps any, I intend to play this PvM up to level 40, probably as an Elf. (again, if I need to change from dex-based, I may go Human instead)
So, for starters, I'll work on a 21/10/9 Ranger/SD/Assassin build and play with the levelling a bit. Does it matter what order I level them, other than how qwuickly I get BoE?