My first level 40 build, ever. Not a clue where to begin. While testing a few things out, I realized that this is like a totally different experience; so many more feats can be taken, and so many more options are available. It is so different from the level 30's I had been attempting, and getting better at. But anyways, on to the request.
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The server is, as you hopefully gathered, a level 40 server. It is not overly likely to make it to the 40th level quickly at all, so the build will have to have some measure of playability. Even if it doesn't become decent until Epic Levels, that is still preferable to an ultimate build that sucks until the 40th level... that is just too harsh a wait.
When I think of my goals on this RP server, I really want to be that powerful force that few understand, though all share a respect for. An enigma, one who rarely makes his opinions known, and will never openly chose sides in a conflict, but will sway the tide of the world in more subtle ways. I picture the character as one who doesn't get involved one way or another, though when the entire structure of the world is in peril, action is finally taken.
With all of that said, I am thinking the character is likely fitting to be Neutral, though I suppose the Good Alignments would work as well. If it is to be Evil, Lawful Evil is the only I could possibly work with. The way I wish to have this character played, involves mystery, so obviously, the character has to have something rare, mysterious, or awesome about him. Things like Pale Master and RDD come to mind immediatly, as they are living tributes to a force greater than man. If Lawful Evil is the route to go, Blackgaurd would be fitting, as I have an interesting and very fun spin to put on it. If Good-Aligned, Paladin would probably not work as that is not a class to sit and wait, but one to act immediatly and sometimes foolishly.
I really don't want to have a heavy-caster kind of build. No Exalted Sorceress, no Heavy Cleric, no Pure Mages... I have a huge problem with classes that rely on their buffs. Characters that are ready for combat, and effectivly so, are most to my liking. This furthers my want for an RDD or PM, for their innate abilities often give them an edge, even when not buffed fully.
I don't really have any numerical factors worked out for the build, or even much of an idea of what direction I want to go in, but Melee is my preference with perhaps some casting for some buffs when needed, and some spells to fall back on. A Bard/RDD/Something seems nice, perhaps. I imagine that one could get a good AB and AC with such a build, and be ready for combat with only a Bard song, a GMW and a few minor, long lasting buffs. A Druid might actually make a good choice as well, as that would fit with the RP of one watching over the land, and acting only when neccisary with a certain neutrality.
Well, as you can all see if you have read this far... I am terribly unsure of what I want for the build. I hope I have given you enough of an image of when I see when I think of my character, and I hope you have gotten an idea of where I want him to go with the 'build' aspect. Since I cannot give you much more detail as I myself have no clue, I will leave you with the server information:
No weapons above +4, same goes for Armour. There are several spell alterations in favour of Melee's. Casters got nerfed fairly. A class with wings, can allow flight, another perk for RDD. There are no Perma-True Sight or Perma-Haste items.
If there are any other questions, ask and I will get you an answer if it means you will be better able to lead me to a good build or in a good direction. And creativity FTW.
EDIT: This just in, RDD is very, very common. Irritating me right now, so unless it is a grand-super-amazing RDD build, I would prefer something else.
Impressive, you gave the boot to your old level 30 RP server, or just trying around? anyway, you overreact, level 40 ain't that different, unless you take SC I guess.
You've spent quite some time here and you can't get to look builds for yourself? seriously use the searcher before making requests... it's quite hard to find something no one has done there or at least quite similar.
That said, here's an RDD build I like: Draconic Wall by Kail Pendragon, not needing to say anything else, try a Dwarven Defender for a change... they're all-around solid meleers.
I was gonna suggest Bard/RDD/BG until I read the last sentence of your post.
Fighter/Bard/BG perhaps. _________________ I see the fear you have inside, you can run but never hide. I will hunt you down and tear you limb from limb.
I run the Pre-Epic Builders guild. Join and share your experience.
Impressive, you gave the boot to your old level 30 RP server, or just trying around? anyway, you overreact, level 40 ain't that different, unless you take SC I guess.
You've spent quite some time here and you can't get to look builds for yourself? seriously use the searcher before making requests... it's quite hard to find something no one has done there or at least quite similar.
That said, here's an RDD build I like: Draconic Wall by Kail Pendragon, not needing to say anything else, try a Dwarven Defender for a change... they're all-around solid meleers.
Well, the alignment shifts might be an issue. If the OP is still interested despite it I think I have a revised version of it too... experience and further playtesting always are of use
When you say PM/RDD the first thing I think of is Bard 20/RDD 10/PM 10 (no epic spells but strong bard song and spells) or Bard 14/RDD 10/PM 16 (epic spells but weaker bard song and spells). I like more the former, personally. Still both builds make their fair use of buffs so they might not be for you. If you are interested I've got something already fleshed out.
A Dragon build can (should) be roleplayed as something mysterious, so that could do (besides you'll be overlypowerful and your 40/+6 DR will make you nigh untouchable). If you don't wanna rely too much on your buffs you can try a ranger/druid with BoE or go heavy on druid in Druid/CoT/Monk build to make it hard to even mord you. Otherwise a Druid/Shifter/Monk with all shapes might suit you, the versatility of this combo is amazing and it's lotta fun to play.
If you look at cleric, you'll see that long term buffs will last more than the time between rests and short term buffs can be cast quickly before entering battle and will last more than enough themselves. Heavy on cleric seems a wise choice to me for that environment, pick the right domains and you'll have an edge on everybody.
Actually, more info about your environment is necessary to give some fair advice, don't be shy to write all the details about it.
Cheers, Kail _________________ Looking for a realm of adventure? Check out World of Greyhawk, you won't regret it.
Nothing above +5? My instinct is to say Cleric with a domain that provides Stoneskin would rule (perhaps CLC with PM - something like CLC 26/Bard 4/PM 10), or Druid/Shifter (or any dragon build, as Kail pointed out). _________________ This signature will self-destruct in 5 seconds...
Well, I've been playing an Elder Earth Elemental lately and I'm having fun with it. Here's what I would recommend:
Might substitue Assasin for Rogue if you wish, there are good things about each. Assasin spell like powers can be used while in Elemental form.
Start with 16 CON and high wisdom also. Boost con to get Epic Damage Reduction asap. Con gets overwritten during Elemental form so stop @ 21.
I love this build, he'll get 12d6 Sneak attack (bosted with feats) and with his 34+ STR he'll hit very hard. My hunting tactic is to go around with my Wolf and an Elemental Swarm. Having the pets around increases your chances of getting those sneak attacks in.
I can post my build if you want it.
I called my build "Earth Lord" since he can spring up from the shadows and dispence some of Mother Natures Justice.
He can punch for over 100 hps sometimes. He's at least a +3 weapon. No need to put any points into str/dex/cha 20 wisdom is good enough. 21 Con for EDR is highly suggested.
He will be a slow walker, but he approachs a situation with causion anyways. He's neutral and wise.
And you just don't see many Elemental Sneakers around.
Ok, ok, the RDD/DWD will be troublesome because of the Alignment shift, but a Fighter/CoT/Dwarven Defender can get EDR III at level 22, which is very playable.
Dragons are good, if the Order of Jormundgandr has too many buffs for you, you can try mine: Thaxll'ssyllia V2 (chek the last post for the revised) not very playable actually, but has a nice death attack with a decent DC. I think that a Druid/Monk/CoT should be the most playable dragon, as you can get 30 WIS earlier than other dragons.
I hate the search engine. I always end up having questions or something, or I will find something I don't understand and want to know more about... but I can't post the question or concern as the build could very well be more than a year old, right? I would feel dumb. And besides, it can't hurt anyone (physically) if I ask here, so I figured it was no big deal.
As for Dwarven Defenders... I just... can't... do it! I want to, because I like the PRC. I use it on Arena's and PvP servers, but on RP servers I just can't deal with looking so short and stupid. I hate Orc's, Dwarfes, Gnomes... Halflings for the most part. My builds are almost always Human anyways. The feat and skills normally sway me strongly to the race, in addition to the standard, less awkward RP in my case. Heh, that rhymed.
As for an RDD/PM, that might be interesting. It sounds fun, and I am somewhat of an abomination of sorts with that class split. Wings and a graft... special. I have tried it a few times, but I always fail miserably in every way. I like the idea, as it is self-sufficiant for the most part with all the natural armour and Strength. What is prospective AB and AC with such a build? Buffed and unbuffed? I don't need exact numbers, I just want to get an estimation of potential before I set out on a ton of work.
Someone mentioned Bard/RDD/BG I think? That is also interesting. Blackgaurd is actually one of the more appealing posibilities now that I think of it. I would like to play a sort of Lone Wolf villain, who doesn't side with anyone other than himself, and strikes only when absolutely necissary to carry out what he twistedly thinks to be 'balance' of the forces. Again, I should ask what the potential of this build is, and perhaps what its strengths and weaknesses are? I like to be awair of as much as I can, so that when I set out to make the build, I can try and find solutions to the flaws already known.
A dragon build is my favourite. It is what I want more than anything, but playability on this server is just too rough, and leveling takes way too damn long. It will be made very, very rough on me... but the pay off will be huge! It is unnerfed entirely, which will make the 40 DR unbeatable with the lack of any +6 weapons, save for AA's and certain Shifted shapes, the latter of which won't hit my AC. I want this more than the others, but I made one on my level 30 server and it was just too rough to get to. I made it, but in the end they nerfed it and wouldn't allow my a rebuild. All my trouble was for nothing and at the end, they wouldn't even compensate me despite the fact that they shredded my work! A reason why a left it.
The Earth Elemental thing though, is very interesting to me. Something I didn't even think of actually. I used to consider the Elementals in everything I did, because Druid is my favourite class and I wanted to use it in a way that isn't quite as stereotpical as Dragonshape, or Shifter or what have you. This just might be what I chose to pursue first, but I have to ask you what the potential AB and AC is, and what its weaknesses and advantages are. Elementals though, are perfect for what I had in mind. Patient, cautious, vital to the lands, and Neutral in all but the gravest of situations. A gaurdian of the world.
The reason I ask for the potential strengths of builds here, is because when I make a build, I rarely know if I did something right or wrong. If I end up with 40 AB, 50 AB, or 60 AB, I never know if that is what it should be for whatever the class split is. I never know if it is ideal, or if it just seems good, though there is actually much better. I would normally like to post a build and have someone critique it and tell me where to improve, but I am so swamped with ideas that I cant post the seven ideas I have. I would like to narrow it down here if at all possible.
Oh, and as for Clerics: No. They have been justly nerfed to hell. Their durations have been shot down to something far more fair. GMW is turns or rounds per level I think, and only increases +1 every 5 levels. That is simply an example, and many others have been applied as well. I like it. The Cleric was broken.
But that is off topic somewhat.
All I want right now, would be if people could post the potential of some of the builds they mentioned. Except for the people who reccomended Dwarven Defenders. You can all fall in a hole.
(Am considering the Earth Elemental with Dwarf though, because I would not intend to spend much time in natural form.. so don't worry)
Bard 20/RDD 10/PM 10 build has got: AB 42 (3 apr) AC 41 (full plate+tower shield)
AB buffs: +5 GMW +2 War Cry +2 Bard Song +5 Curse Song +1 to +3 Empowered Bull's Strength --- +15 to +17 effective AB --- +1 to +6 Taunt --- +16 to +23 effective AB and successful Taunt
AC buffs: +2 deflection Magic Circle Against Alignment +1 natural MA +1 armor MA +1 dodge MA +4 dodge haste +5 dodge Bard Song +2 Curse Song --- +16 effective AC
All of this with no items (apart mundane plate and tower shield) whatsoever. Bard has got UMD so you'll be able to cast cleric spells from scrolls
Tell me if you want the build's layout... I might officialy post it soon anyhow.
BTW, did you consider a ranger dragon with BoE? Not too difficult to lvl up IMO. Check my Gæa's Protector - Ranger(23), Druid(16), Monk(1) out.
Cheers, Kail _________________ Heavy metal Or no metal at all Whimps and posers Leave the hall!
Edited By Kail Pendragon on 07/28/06 00:31
Elementals are good, I like them too btw, and it should be strong, I'd show you my elemental build, but it has Cleric on it, big time. Druid/Monk/Rogue as Bromium said is very nice, Druid/Monk/Barbarian might get its tricks too.
LOL, there are already some Bard/RDD/PM builds, (though I only remember one), you get awesome immunities and all, if you can't wait for Kail to show up his build, here's Clarissa the Punk Rocker (Bard 20, PM 10, RDD 10) by DaMouse404 (built with EDR III, guess why I like it) or take a look also at the Undead Dragon Skald (Bard 14/Palemaster 16/RDD 10) by Ithacan (since you won't use the searcher by yourself, I think this one is quite good). Those should be at least good references.
I think if I were to do the PM/RDD I would like the 16th level PM version. Epic Warding would be achievable, right? That sort of beats out everything....
On that note, can Epic Spells be Dispelled?
And no Kail, don't post it for me unless you really were going to post it for everyone else. I just like knowing what to aim for, and I will attempt it myself. At least then I feel somewhat competent.
Still waiting on the Elemental capabilities though.
And FINE! I will look at your stupid search engine!
Yeah, Ithacan made at least one Bard/RDD/PM getting Epic Spells. EW is actually a feat not a spell so don't worry it's not dispellable. With PM 16 you can get both EMA and EW btw (pick PM 15 on a general feat lvl and use the PM 16 bonus feat for the other epic spell... beware of spellcraft requisites of course). As if your defenses were low as they were, talk about overkill eh-eh
Go Bard 12/RDD 8 preepic and remember to get WP: martial (or exotic) and Heavy Armor since none of your classes gets them for free.
Cheers, Kail _________________ Looking for a realm of adventure? Check out World of Greyhawk, you won't regret it.
Quote: And FINE! I will look at your stupid search engine!
Search Engine... by pulse cap
Elder Earth Elemental build:
The STR/CON/DEX are changed when shifted into Elder Earth Elemental form.
STR 34 DEX 10 CON 22
15/+3 DR Immune to crits, sneak, mind affecting, poison, Paralysis.
With IKD and IDisarm, you'll be able to sneak your ennemies a lot better. I suggest taking wolf as your companion since he has a nice fear howl. Always walk around with an Elemental Swarm.
Your AB will not be great since you are shifted, Stonehold an area and then fight in it.
Extend and Maximiz spell are VERY important for your buffs.
I took/suggest 2 fire protections but you can take whatever you want.
I tried to space out the class & levels so as to make it playable and still get as much pre epic BAB as you can.
You can get Huge Elemental Shape at Druid lvl 16 so that will help. Until you get the elemental forms, I guess (Dire)Bear will do.
I think DR/RO/M is better than DR/RO/SD since you need 13 dex for Dodge/mobility. But, if you think HIPS will make you better, then you'll be sacrificing your monk ac, your disc, cleave, deflect arrow, etc...
I included the skill allocation I hope it doesn't offend your eyes.
Pros for that build:
9/- DR, 15/+3 DR 20/- Fire Protection Immune to crit/sneak/poison/mind spells/paralysis/ immune to grease/web/entangle +4 hide/MS in forest +2 AB when fighting in nature Deflect Arrows Improved Evasion +4 save vs traps 10d6 sneak attack Disarming while "unarmed" sends the weapon to your inventory.
Cons:
SLOW Low AB Can't cast spells while shifted Low Disc initially (subject to KD spammers) Relies on Sneak Damage for best results. Only Armor properties Merge when you shift. Pre Buffing for maximum results takes a long time.
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This concept build can be changed here and there of course. Perhaps you'd preffer assasin vs rogue so you can use the Spell like abilities (darkness/invisibility/improved invis/ ghost visage). Or the death attack (I always like to see the words scroll up on hte screen DEATH ATTACK ) hehe
DR/RO/SD isn't impossible to do, and would offer HIPS. Not a bad skill to have when your AC will be so low.
UMD is almost a must have since you'll need buffing items too.
Heal skill isn't usefull since you can't use kits while shifted. Potions are the way to go.
That build is very nice Bromium, although you should change Luck of Heroes for Blind-Fight. Defensive Roll doesn't does much if you don't get Epic Dodge, that can be Improved Sneak Attack as well.
Your AB is actually high since you get a shift, I suggest Monk1 just when you get the shift for more playability, even if you lose 1 BAB, it practically doubles its pre-epic playability.
You can't take improved sneak attack instead of defensive roll, ISA needs 9d6 and you only get that at lvl 38. Def Roll was @ lvl 37.
It was Defensice Roll, or ... well... the list was limited to the Rogue bonus feats. "maybe" Epic Reflex.
I know that taking a monk early on improves survival alot due to AC boost, but with such a low BAB to begin with, I figured trying to squeez out 15 instead of 14 pre-epic was important.
@ lvl 40 and after buffs, you should be looking at "roughly" 47 AB.
I also preffer Luck Of Heros because your ennemy will be spells, not sneakers.
Mages will be this builds soft spot if anything. Imploders for instance. If you can add anything, add to your spell saves. That's why I pushed out lvl 20 druid where I did. To get 30 Spellcraft instead of 25.
I'm not worried about sneakers because: - they will not be doing sneak damage to me. - a good sneaker has more than enough AB to hit me even if they are not sneaking.
I am more worried about making a saving throw, and +1 is better than nothing.
Fortitude or Reflex saves are important. Since you are immune to mind spells, you can forget about will saves.
Edited By Bromium on 07/28/06 21:12
ISA needs only 8d6, not 9d6. _________________ It's rogue, dammit, ROGUE!!!
ah poop, so it is. My bad.
If you are saying that a Sneaker has enough AB to hit your AC, then it must be quite low. If that is the case, why take Monk level? It won't help your AC that much, and since you get hit either way, mine as well take Shadowdancer for the HiPS which would prove a better defence than the +7 AC you get from Monk (I think.)
I think I will mess around with this. Elementals are so cool.
Out of curiosity, anyone have a Blackgaurd Druid? Neato RP, but I dunno if they are good or not. The only one I made... well...
The Monk levels help because they provide Discipline skill point dump spots, AC, and the feats that come with 2 levels of Monk. They also give you 2 more attacks per round. regular Elemental will only get 3 attacks, a monk hybrid will get the full 5.
You could just as easy take two levels in Barbarian for a brief rage bonus and still have the Discipline.
Bard for a mini song (to low for any good).
To qualify for SD you'll need at least 13 dex to start with for Dodge and Mobility. Still very good to take. I'd take a rogue level just prior to SD in order to fill up the Hide and MS requirements. You'd probably drop the Disarm feats to get SD.
The pros for SD mean you have HIPS, the con is that you won't have more than 20 Disc (without using feats), 3 attacks instead of 5, no Deflect arrow, cleave, less ac.
HIPS is a huge advantage tho, so it's really a matter of play style and taste.
Quote: -- Cinnabar Din ISA needs only 8d6, not 9d6.
Quote: -- Bromium ah poop, so it is. My bad.
Told ya, you can take ISA there.
Quote: I also preffer Luck Of Heros because your ennemy will be spells, not sneakers.
Blind-Fight has nothing to do with sneakers, Blind-Fight allows you to make a reroll when you miss because of a Concealment chance, automatically halving any Concealment you fight, it's like a base feat for any meleer, Practically any mage and cleric get Improved Invisibility (50% Concealment), not to say other Concealed PvM enemies or spells and Self Concealment feat, Blind-Fight is far more important for a meleer than +1 to all saves.
Yeah, I have to agree with Thax on the Blind Fight feat. It's an absolute must for a melee build. _________________ It's rogue, dammit, ROGUE!!!
Elder Earth Elemental build:
ah poop, so it is. My bad.
If you are saying that a Sneaker has enough AB to hit your AC, then it must be quite low. If that is the case, why take Monk level? It won't help your AC that much, and since you get hit either way, mine as well take Shadowdancer for the HiPS which would prove a better defence than the +7 AC you get from Monk (I think.)