I wanted to buils a pure rogue, but since rogues (for whatever reason) do not get Hide in plain site, I added 1 lvl of SD. I know... I know... "power build" but I think it is not worth having a high hide and move silent if you always have to run away to use it... ANYWAY...

Halfling
True Neutral
Stats
Strength 12
Dexterity 18 (30)
Constitution 12
Intelligence 12
Wisdom 12
Charisma 8

Lvl Progression
1-20 Rogue
21 SD
21-40 Rogue

Feats
Blind Fight
Weapon Fenesse
Knockdown
Improved Knockdown
Improved Evasion
Improved Critical (short sword)
Defensive Roll
Dodge
Crippling Strike
Mobility
Slippery Mind
Armor Skin
Great Dexterity
Great Dexterity
Epic Dodge
Self Concealment I
Self Concealment II
Self Concealment II
Self Concealment IV
Self Concealment V
Epic Skill Focus (Hide)
Epic Skill Focus (Move Silent)

Dexterity taken on each lvl available.

Please let me know what you think of this build. You need to add Fighter. The more the merrier -- but at least six levels. Weapon Specialization and all that. Hell, you don't even have Weapon Focus, that's messed up. I suggest you get 14 level of Fighter to beef him up a bit (actually a lot).

EDIT: yeah, you say pure rogue, but since you already added SD because Rogues don't get HiPS, you surely can add Ftr because Rogues don't get EWS either
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Edited By FinneousPJ on 07/27/06 19:06

Actaully, the "Rogue Archer" build on the Bioware Epic Build pages is a very strong build. Rogue Fighter SD. very nice sneak damage.

Tweeking it here and there is still fine. Ok I took your suggestions and here is what I came up with. I want this character to be the ultimate scout. In the PW I play, you have to have at least 100 hide to not been seen by most. Some you will never be able to hide from. Anyway, here it is...

Halfling
True Neutral
Rogue 33 / Fighter 6 / SD 1

Stats
Strngth 12
Dex 18 (30)
Con 12
Intel 12
Wis 12
Charisma 8

1 Rogue Blind Fight
2 Fighter Weapon Fenesse
3 Rogue Weapon Focus (short sword)
4 Fighter Knockdown (Dex)
5 Rogue
6 Fighter Improved Knockdown
7 Rogue
8 Fighter Weapon Specialization (short sword) (Dex)
9 Rogue Stealthy
10 Rogue
11 Rogue
12 Rogue Improved Critical (short sword) (Dex)
13 Rogue
14 Rogue Improved Evasion
15 Rogue Dodge
16 Rogue (Dex)
17 Rogue Defensive Roll
18 Rogue Mobility
19 Rogue
20 Rogue Crippling Strike (Dex)
21 SD Epic Weapon Focus (short sword)
22 Fighter
23 Fighter Epic Weapon Specilization (short sword)
24 Rogue Great Dex (Dex)
25 Rogue
26 Rogue Great Dex
27 Rogue Epic Dodge
28 Rogue (Dex)
29 Rogue
30 Rogue Epic Skill Focus (MS)
31 Rogue Epic Skill Focus (Hide)
32 Rogue (Dex)
33 Rogue Epic Skill Focus (Spot)
34 Rogue
35 Rogue Skill Focus (MS)
36 Rogue Epic Prowess (Dex)
37 Rogue Skill Focus (Hide)
38 Rogue
39 Rogue Armor Skin
40 Rogue (Dex)

This will give me a Hide of 105 (with equipment available in my PW) 115 (with equipment and scrolls available in my PW) and a MS of 86 plus a Listen of 52 and a Spot of 102 (with equipment and scrolls availalble in my PW)

Is this a better version?
Quote: I wanted to buils a pure rogue, but since rogues (for whatever reason) do not get Hide in plain site, I added 1 lvl of SD

You'll believe me if I tell you I have done it? I think your Hide check gets a terrible penalty when being watched, but it is possible against enemies with low or none Spot/Listen. Actually is not practical at all it works once in a blue moon.

I am confused, how do you end with 30 DEX (no other ability increased) with SCV? you got 5 feats at level 40? you need to have 30 DEX prior enough to take the SC feats, which will mandate the last ability point at level 40 on something else or DEX, but nothing else gets increased.

EDIT: Argh, I was posting as that reply came up, now that one seems logical. I think it's more worthy (overall) to get GDEX II instead of those (non-epic) skill focuses.

Edited By Thaxll'ssyllia on 07/27/06 21:13

Ok I took your suggestions and here is what I came up with. I want this character to be the ultimate scout. In the PW I play, you have to have at least 100 hide to not been seen by most. Some you will never be able to hide from. Anyway, here it is...

Halfling
True Neutral
Rogue 33 / Fighter 6 / SD 1

Stats
Strngth 12
Dex 18 (30)
Con 12
Intel 12
Wis 12
Charisma 8

1 Rogue Blind Fight
2 Fighter Weapon Fenesse
3 Rogue Weapon Focus (short sword)
4 Fighter Knockdown (Dex)
5 Rogue
6 Fighter Improved Knockdown
7 Rogue
8 Fighter Weapon Specialization (short sword) (Dex)
9 Rogue Stealthy
10 Rogue
11 Rogue
12 Rogue Improved Critical (short sword) (Dex)
13 Rogue
14 Rogue Improved Evasion
15 Rogue Dodge
16 Rogue (Dex)
17 Rogue Defensive Roll
18 Rogue Mobility
19 Rogue
20 Rogue Crippling Strike (Dex)
21 SD Epic Weapon Focus (short sword)
22 Fighter
23 Fighter Epic Weapon Specilization (short sword)
24 Rogue Great Dex (Dex)
25 Rogue
26 Rogue Great Dex
27 Rogue Epic Dodge
28 Rogue (Dex)
29 Rogue
30 Rogue Epic Skill Focus (MS)
31 Rogue Epic Skill Focus (Hide)
32 Rogue (Dex)
33 Rogue Epic Skill Focus (Spot)
34 Rogue
35 Rogue Skill Focus (MS)
36 Rogue Epic Prowess (Dex)
37 Rogue Skill Focus (Hide)
38 Rogue
39 Rogue Armor Skin
40 Rogue (Dex)

Skill Points are:
Craft Armor 10
Craft Weapon 10
Disable Trap 15
Hide 43
Listen 43
Move Silent 43
Open Locks 15
Pick Pocket 20
Search 15
Set Trap 15
Spot 43
Tumble 40
UMD 37

This will give me a Hide of 105 (with equipment available in my PW) 115 (with equipment and scrolls available in my PW) and a MS of 86 plus a Listen of 52 and a Spot of 102 (with equipment and scrolls availalble in my PW)

Is this a better version?
Quote: Posted 07/27/06 21:41:24 (GMT) -- Kill A Lot A Crap

Ok I took your suggestions and here is what I came up with. I want this character to be the ultimate scout. In the PW I play, you have to have at least 100 hide to not been seen by most. Some you will never be able to hide from. Anyway, here it is...

Halfling
True Neutral
Rogue 33 / Fighter 6 / SD 1

Stats
Strngth 12
Dex 18 (30)
Con 12
Intel 12
Wis 12
Charisma 8

You've underspent your starting points by 2. I'd suggest 2 more points in either CON or INT.

Quote: 
1 Rogue Blind Fight
2 Fighter Weapon Fenesse
3 Rogue Weapon Focus (short sword)
4 Fighter Knockdown (Dex)
5 Rogue
6 Fighter Improved Knockdown
7 Rogue
8 Fighter Weapon Specialization (short sword) (Dex)
9 Rogue Stealthy
10 Rogue
11 Rogue
12 Rogue Improved Critical (short sword) (Dex)
13 Rogue
14 Rogue Improved Evasion
15 Rogue Dodge
16 Rogue (Dex)
17 Rogue Defensive Roll
18 Rogue Mobility
19 Rogue
20 Rogue Crippling Strike (Dex)
21 SD Epic Weapon Focus (short sword)
22 Fighter
23 Fighter Epic Weapon Specilization (short sword)
24 Rogue Great Dex (Dex)
25 Rogue
26 Rogue Great Dex
27 Rogue Epic Dodge
28 Rogue (Dex)
29 Rogue
30 Rogue Epic Skill Focus (MS)
31 Rogue Epic Skill Focus (Hide)
32 Rogue (Dex)
33 Rogue Epic Skill Focus (Spot)
34 Rogue
35 Rogue Skill Focus (MS)
36 Rogue Epic Prowess (Dex)
37 Rogue Skill Focus (Hide)
38 Rogue
39 Rogue Armor Skin
40 Rogue (Dex)

Is this a better version?

Don't think so. I don't believe it works as you planned:

1) Improved KD requires 13 INT and BAB +7. You have neither the INT to qualify, and your BAB at the level you take it (level 6) is only +5.

2) At character level 26 you're taking GRT DEX as your Rogue bonus feat, and they do not get GRT DEX as a bonus feat.

3) Levels 35 and 37 you have Skill Focus feats as your bonus feats: Rogues do not get these as a bonus feat; only the Epic Skill Focus feats, as far as I'm aware.

3a) Character level 37 is Rogue level 30, so you don't even get a feat there.

4) You're missing the Rogue bonus feat at character level 39 (Rogue 32). I figure that's where that feat at level 37 came from.

Why short sword? Why not dual-wield tiny weapons? Are you planning to use a shield (which carries a minor armor check penalty)?

I also question the utility of Imp Critical, as you'll obviously be relying on sneak dice for your damage. Anything immune to your sneak attacks is also going to be immune to criticals (except dragons).

Oh, and why the 12 WIS? To bolster the Will save?
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Edited By Cinnabar Din on 07/28/06 07:05

GRRR... Where were you yesterday? hehe

I didn't realize that Improved Knockdown had an intellegence requirement. Back to the drawing board. I guess I will have to stop trying to build these at work and use my resources at home and post them later.

Thanks for the help!!! Ok, I should probably change the title of this to Rogue / Fighter / SD now, but anyway. I do appreciate the help from all.

Here goes.


Halfling
True Neutral
Rogue 29 / Fighter 10 / SD 1

Stats
Strngth 12
Dex 18 (30)
Con 12
Intel 14
Wis 12
Charisma 8

1 Rogue Blind Fight
2 Fighter Weapon Fenesse
3 Rogue Ambedexterity
4 Fighter Two Weapon Fighting (Dex)
5 Rogue
6 Fighter Improved Two Weapon Fighting
7 Rogue
8 Fighter Weapon Focus (Dagger) (Dex)
9 Fighter Knockdown
10 Fighter
11 Rogue
12 Fighter Improved Knockdown (Dex)
13 Fighter Improved Critical (Dagger)
14 Rogue
15 Rogue Dodge
16 Rogue (Dex)
17 Rogue
18 Rogue Mobility, Improved Evasion
19 Rogue
20 Rogue (Dex)
21 SD Epic Weapon Focus (Dagger)
22 Fighter
23 Fighter Epic Weapon Specilization (Dagger)
24 Rogue Great Dex, Deffensive Roll (Dex)
25 Rogue
26 Rogue
27 Rogue Epic Skill Focus (Hide), Epic Dodge
28 Rogue (Dex)
29 Rogue
30 Rogue Great Dex, Epic Skill Focus (MS)
31 Rogue
32 Rogue (Dex)
33 Rogue Epic Skill Focus (Spot)
34 Rogue
35 Rogue Crippling Strike
36 Rogue Epic Prowess (Dex)
37 Rogue
38 Rogue
39 Rogue Armor Skin, Improved Sneak Attack
40 Rogue (Dex)

Is this a better version?

Edited By Kill A Lot A Crap on 07/28/06 15:21

As Cinn pointed out, why 12 WIS? drop points from WIS into CON, 40 HP and +1 Fort save is better than just +1 Will save.
Quote: Posted 07/28/06 15:21:03 (GMT) -- Kill A Lot A Crap

Is this a better version?

Still some errors:

1) Imp TWF requires BAB +9. You don't have that at level 6.

2) You don't have Weapon Specialization, so you don't qualify for Epic WS.

Try this:


1 Rogue1 Blind Fight
2 Fighter1 Weapon Finesse
3 Rogue2 Ambidexterity
4 Fighter2 Two Weapon Fighting (Dex)
5 Rogue3
6 Fighter3 Weapon Focus
7 Rogue4
8 Fighter4 Weapon Specialization (Dagger) (Dex)
9 Fighter5 Knockdown
10 Fighter6 Improved Two Weapon Fighting
11 Fighter7
12 Rogue5 Improved Knockdown (Dex)
13 Fighter8 Improved Critical (Dagger)
14 Rogue6
15 Rogue7 Dodge
16 Rogue8 (Dex)
17 Rogue9
18 Rogue10 Mobility, Improved Evasion
19 Rogue11
20 Fighter9 (Dex)
21 SD1 Epic Weapon Focus (Dagger)
22 Rogue12
23 Fighter10 Epic Weapon Specilization (Dagger)
24 Rogue13 Great Dex, Defensive Roll (Dex)
25 Rogue14
26 Rogue15
27 Rogue16 Epic Skill Focus (Hide), Epic Dodge
28 Rogue17 (Dex)
29 Rogue18
30 Rogue19 Great Dex, Epic Skill Focus (MS)
31 Rogue20
32 Rogue21 (Dex)
33 Rogue22 Epic Skill Focus (Spot)
34 Rogue23
35 Rogue24 Crippling Strike
36 Rogue25 Epic Prowess (Dex)
37 Rogue26
38 Rogue27
39 Rogue28 Armor Skin, Improved Sneak Attack
40 Rogue29 (Dex)

I think that will work.
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This signature will self-destruct in 5 seconds... Cool, thanks! do you think this character will hold up in PvP? Without any disc, you'll be on your behind more often than not during PvP. if you are aiming for high hide/ms...
go Rogue/Druid/SD

use druid only for the stealth bonus and the "camoflague" spell.

mwahaha
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Quote: Posted 07/29/06 02:31:34 (GMT) -- DarkInfernoo

if you are aiming for high hide/ms...
go Rogue/Druid/SD

use druid only for the stealth bonus and the "camoflague" spell.

mwahaha

I have a Ranger / Assassin / SD build that uses Camoflague and another spell that adds to both hide and MS.

MWAAHAHHAHHAAHAAHA