Greetings, long time lurker first time poster. I am looking for help refining this assassin build.
I think I have come up with an assassin build different enough to warrant a post. I am primarily looking for advice on how to 'tweak' the build, while keeping it unique from the other assassins in the guild. Advice on level progression for playability would be most appreciated, but i will take any and all comments!
What I tried to focus on was the generally described weaknesses of the various well-known assassin builds, especially as described by their creator(s).
For builds that contributed to the concept of this one, I would have to credit Cinnabar's Death's Lullaby, darn near any build made by the Dwarflord, Talamier's Shadow Stalker, and various builds by Kaliban.
This build is a dex based assassin. Here are the general areas I tried to focus on in this build:
Low saves. Will saves are notoriously low for assassins, espicially those who have 8 in wisdom. Reflex saves are mediocre when an assassin is built strenght based. Choice of race and luck of heros+epic will+epic fortitude, and use of a bit of spell craft help out here. The question on this point is: Did the steps I took to increases saves make a significant difference, and should I go for epic fort or epic reflex? Or should I scrap epic fort or reflex and change out that and epic prowess for 2 great dexes netting the same AB and one more AC? Iron will could be subbed for toughness if thought necessary.
Evasion. Many great assassin builds list the lack of this feat as a downside. I managed to fit it in.
'Best-in-class' AB. 43 AB, 41 dual wielding, and 41 with a thrown weapon makes for pretty good AB – as good or better from comparable builds.
Low damage when dex based. For that i grabbed EWS, which very few assassin-heavy builds have. Those that typically have it have a significantly lower death attack DC. You fight like you have a 22 base strength, you just cant carry as much.
'Best-in-class' AC. 33 if I counted it right. Many of the strength based assassins note that their AC is around 30-33ish in full plate with a shield. This build could still add a medium shield for 35 AC to make that comparison. Could be further increased by 1 if epic fortitude or reflexes are not needed.
'Best in class' death attack DC. 42 is as good or better than the other assassins. Trying to get much more makes any assassin build much less playable (IMO).
Higher than usual sneak attack. 17D6 sneak dice here without any improved sneak attack feats.
Hitpoints. Usually when trying to cover up a weakness on an assassin, hitpoints are sacrificed. I got 392 here, which is near the top of the heap.
Why no dodge for extra AC? Dodge is +1 AC to you last or current attacker. You are playing an assassin – your last attacker is already dead and your current attacker is about to be dead.
Halfling evil
str 10 dex 18 (34) <--all stat increases here con 14 wis 8 int 14 cha 8
309 total skill points tumble 40 UMD 41 hide 43 ms 43 spellcraft 34 (17) + 3 from intelligence score to make 20 108 left for distribution
saves (vs spells) + 'other' reflex 36 (40) fort 24 (28) +14 more against poison will 21(25) +2 more against fear
AC 33 (up to 35 with medium shield) ab 43(41 dual wield or with a throwing weapon)
Death attack DC 42
17d6 sneak/death attack dice
hp 392
Fire away folks!
why not take fighter on your 1st lvl instead of rogue, that way you can take exotic with the bonus feat and use kukris (better crit range then a dagger)You can still take rouge at lvl 2 or something
Looks good to me. The only thing I can think of to consider is: are the Epic save feats really worthwhile? The Fort and Will saves are low, but you do manage to get them over 20 with the feats, so I guess it's really up to you. I might be temoted to take Blind Fighr earlier than Toughness, as it's an invaluable feat.
Epic Reflexes is not needed, IMO, as your Reflex save is very high.
HiPS would be invaluable to this build, but you can't fit it in without sacrificing a lot of Assn levels, and that would drop your DA DC.
Good looking build. _________________ It's rogue, dammit, ROGUE!!!
why not take fighter on your 1st lvl instead of rogue, that way you can take exotic with the bonus feat and use kukris (better crit range then a dagger)You can still take rouge at lvl 2 or something
You lose skill points (not a big deal with the sheer volume he gets anyway) and you'd also have to drop one of the feats to fit Exotic in (likeliest candidate would be Toughness, since the LoH and Epic Save feats are integral to his build idea).
Criticals are a non-factor with this build anyway, as it will rely primarily on sneak attacks and death attack to do the job. _________________ It's rogue, dammit, ROGUE!!!
To claim that both AB, AC, damage, saves and sneak-attacks is better than average makes me wonder.... As from what I can see, if they have lower AB, then they have more sneak-attacks. I think this build is well-rounded, but it isn't better than average in everything. Going STR makes your AC and stealth suffer, but it saves some other trouble that Dexers are facing. You have no Epic dodge, which builds with slightly lower AB often has. No Hips, which builds with lower AB has, so it's all about choices. It seems to me that you think you have found a "better" way of doing assassin, and in some ways you have. But it makes it lacking in other ways. All in all a good build, though. Very good AC, good AB, decent saves. Good Death attack DC(it's 41 btw). _________________ Dragonlance ROH is back, better than before! and I spend a little time here WoG
Edited By Grimnir77 on 08/17/06 14:50
If you made a Ranger/Fighter/Assasin, you could get improved 2 weapon fighting for free and not have to burn up feats. Add a fighter lvl pre epic for specialization and post epic for the EWS. You'd get at least 2 banes of ennemies, a few spells (camo spell being good). You would probably not get 17d6 sneak, but you'd still get a decent amount, and a few extra feats to juggle around.
I know you said to not change the nature of the build around, but I just thought I'd suggest this type.
Thanks everyone for your help. I don't think I meant to necessarily say this is better than any build, just that I focused on the weaknesses that other builders had talked about and tried to address them while not losing (if possible) strengths. When I said 'best-in-class' I meant of the assassin-heavy builds, that particular stat was at the top of what has been shared before - either as good as the best or a hari better.
Also, I thought death attack DC was 10 + assassin level + int modifier? If so, then it is 42 for this build. How did you arrive at 41?
edit: whoops - I see how - I made an error in my stats, the build actually has 16 int. Good thing I didn't post it in the builds forum, I would owe somebody a case of ale or something I think.
Edited By jrmunch on 08/17/06 20:53
Quote: Posted 08/17/06 20:52:02 (GMT) -- jrmunch
Thanks everyone for your help. I don't think I meant to necessarily say this is better than any build, just that I focused on the weaknesses that other builders had talked about and tried to address them while not losing (if possible) strengths. When I said 'best-in-class' I meant of the assassin-heavy builds, that particular stat was at the top of what has been shared before - either as good as the best or a hari better.
Also, I thought death attack DC was 10 + assassin level + int modifier? If so, then it is 42 for this build. How did you arrive at 41?
edit: whoops - I see how - I made an error in my stats, the build actually has 16 int. Good thing I didn't post it in the builds forum, I would owe somebody a case of ale or something I think.
Actually, you owe us one anyway - or did Kail not tell you about the new member initiation fee? _________________ It's rogue, dammit, ROGUE!!!
Doh! Looks like I need to start brewing...
And as the main share holder, the case comes to me.
But the DC is nice regardless, over 40 is great in my thinking.
Not too many people will make it when you force it down their throats enough times per round. Same with Dev Crit and IKD.
You need HiPS though. You have so much potential damage but after than first round... If they aren't dead...
Quote: Posted 08/17/06 22:27:24 (GMT) -- Cinnabar Din
Actually, you owe us one anyway - or did Kail not tell you about the new member initiation fee?
Now, that' s something to add to the guild rules _________________ Heavy metal Or no metal at all Whimps and posers Leave the hall!
