Premise Hear ye! Hear ye! Alright, lads, listen up. I have a build contest for you. Winner gets bragging rights. I need a character that is true to the name, "Blades of the Ultra-Violet". Primarily, this needs to be a stealth-based character who makes his money by ripping people to shreds in clouds of Darkness via Ultravision or Truesight. However, there are some caveats to that:
Requirements 1. Must be able to cast Darkness multiple times a day-- 3 minimum. UMD will not be counted to arrive at this figure.
2. Ultravision (or Truesight) spell must have minimum 10 hour duration.
3. Need a minimum of 42 AB, before buffs/enhancements
4. Must have minimum of 10d6 sneak dice (Rogue, Assn, BG,ISA or any combination thereof)
5. Can be Strength or Dex-based
6. If Dex-based, it must have Epic Dodge by Level 27.
7. Any race, but NO XP penalty anywhere in the build.
8. Must have damage sources other than by Sneak Attacks (e.g., WS/EWS, Bane, Strength, etc.)
9. Must have a minimum of 4 attacks per round without arcane/divine means.
10. Cannot have less than 30 AC (either naked or mundane equipment)
11. Cannot have fewer than 375 hitpoints
12. Cannot have fewer than 250 skill points.
13. Must have 20+ base saves in all 3 save categories (Spellcraft, HS bonus, etc will not be counted)
14. It must be playable from 1-40, PvM
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This is a tall order, and should prove to be quite a challenge. Hopefully I didn't make it too challenging. I think it can be approached from a variety of ways, and I think the end result will be quite a unique build, and something I would like to play.
Post questions, comments or final build within this thread for judgement. Please don't post one that "almost" meets the prereqs. It must meet all 14 items on the checklist.
Time for some of you upstarts to put your Building Skills to the test.
It is a worthy challenge Dwarflord, a worthy one indeed. Here's my take on it. Notice you can easily go Bard 14/Paladin 1 for extra cheese and divine grace exploiting if the alignment change is not an issue.
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Bard(15), Blackguard(25) Human, NE or CE PvM, Playable 1-40
LEVELING GUIDE 01: Bard(1): Lingering Song, Power Attack 02: Bard(2) 03: Bard(3): Cleave 04: Bard(4): STR+1, (STR=17) 05: Bard(5) 06: Bard(6): Curse Song 07: Bard(7) 08: Bard(8): STR+1, (STR=18) 09: Blackguard(1): Blind Fight 10: Blackguard(2): {Smite Good} 11: Blackguard(3) 12: Bard(9): STR+1, Still Spell, (STR=19) 13: Blackguard(4) 14: Blackguard(5) 15: Blackguard(6): Extend Spell 16: Blackguard(7): STR+1, (STR=20) 17: Bard(10) 18: Blackguard(8): Weapon Focus 19: Blackguard(9) 20: Blackguard(10): STR+1, (STR=21) 21: Blackguard(11): Great Strength I, (STR=22) 22: Bard(11) 23: Blackguard(12) 24: Blackguard(13): STR+1, Great Strength II, Epic Weapon Focus, (STR=24) 25: Blackguard(14) 26: Blackguard(15) 27: Bard(12): Great Strength III, (STR=25) 28: Blackguard(16): STR+1, Epic Prowess, (STR=26) 29: Blackguard(17) 30: Blackguard(18): Great Strength IV, (STR=27) 31: Blackguard(19): Armor Skin 32: Bard(13): STR+1, (STR=28) 33: Blackguard(20): Great Strength V, (STR=29) 34: Blackguard(21) 35: Blackguard(22): Epic Toughness I or Epic Reputation or Epic Fiendish Servant 36: Blackguard(23): STR+1, Great Strength VI, (STR=31) 37: Bard(14) 38: Blackguard(24) 39: Blackguard(25): Improved Sneak Attack I, Improved Sneak Attack II 40: Bard(15): STR+1, (STR=32)
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All 14 points covered and bard should be of your liking, if I'm not mistaken.
Cheers, Kail _________________ Heavy metal Or no metal at all Whimps and posers Leave the hall!
Edited By Kail Pendragon on 10/07/06 17:45
I'll be damned. Never explored that possibility. Very nice, Master Kail, very nice. Touche'! You outdid yourself this time. You managed to just scrape by in every category, but did so in style. This will immediately go to the top of the stack.
Now, can anyone one-up him?
PS: How many tries did it take you? _________________ Got Hommlet? World of Greyhawk Action Server (with 1/2 price ales on Mondays!)
Ariel, Ookla, RIDE!
Edited By grizzled_dwarflord on 10/07/06 17:59
Thank you master Dwarflord. One question, since I'm exploring other possibilities: 4 apr means 4 base attacks or dual wielding can be used to meet (and surpass) the requirement? _________________ Heavy metal Or no metal at all Whimps and posers Leave the hall!
(quote)One question, since I'm exploring other possibilities: 4 apr means 4 base attacks or dual wielding can be used to meet (and surpass) the requirement?
4 APR, in this instance, means just that. Whether you achieve that by 16BAB, dualwielding or Monk attack schedule, remains up to you.
And Cin inquired about 42AB and "does that count for dualwielding?" Answer: no, it doesn't count for dualwielding. 42AB would still be the base, so a 40AB would still be valid for a dualwielder. _________________ Got Hommlet? World of Greyhawk Action Server (with 1/2 price ales on Mondays!)
Ariel, Ookla, RIDE!
Edited By grizzled_dwarflord on 10/07/06 18:09
Not too many tries. I went straight out for a STR approach and I chose BG to get together full BAB progression and SA. I tried a Bard/RDD/BG combo but to meet all the requirements (skillpoints were some 10 points short of 250) I ended up with Bard 13/RDD 2/BG 25. It is still a possibility, but I feel the bard song/curse song enhanced power is better than +1 AB/AC from the 2 RDD lvls. Also, this way it is still open to RDD, PM or Paladin cheese. And as it is, it has a somehow elegant look. _________________ Heavy metal Or no metal at all Whimps and posers Leave the hall!
Also, this way it is still open to RDD, PM or Paladin cheese. And as it is, it has a somehow elegant look.
I agree. It's beautiful in it's simplicity, and much better than the crap I was coming up with. I think it might even be possible to dip into Rogue for 3 levels, grab Evasion and more skill points, and toss the final 3 BG levels, and still keep the 10d6 sneak. _________________ Got Hommlet? World of Greyhawk Action Server (with 1/2 price ales on Mondays!)
Ariel, Ookla, RIDE!
Here's what I came up with. Haven't built it in a leveller, but I think it works:
21)Rogue5: EWF 22)Rogue6 23)CLC6 24)CLC7: GRT STR I (22)/ STR (23) 25)Rogue7 26)Rogue8 27)CLC8: GRT STR II (24) 28)CLC9: STR (25) 29)Rogue9 30)Rogue10: GRT STR III (26)/ Improved Evasion 31)CLC10 32)Rogue11: STR (27) 33)Rogue12: GRT STR IV (28) 34)Rogue13: Epic Skill Focus:Discipline 35)Rogue14 36)CLC11: GRT STR V (29)/ STR (30) 37)Rogue15 38)Rogue16: Improved Sneak Attack I 39)Rogue17: GRT STR VI (31) 40)FTR12: Epic Prowess/ STR (32)
BAB: +27 AB (unbuffed): +42
HPs (maxed): 390
AC in mundane plate and shield: 30
Sneak Attack: 10d6
Other damage sources: The usual Cleric stuff, as well as +11 from STR.
Skill Points: 335 Tumble: 40 Spellcraft: 38 (40) Discipline: 43 (64) UMD: 41 (40) 213 left to spend as you will
Saves: Fort: 24 Refl: 22 Will: 22
No XP penalty.
Darkness as a level 2 Cleric spell. Extend Spell gives you Darkness in level 3 slots as well. Ultravision lasts 11 hours; Extended will be 22 hours. If you use all your slots for 1 Ultravision and the rest Darkness, you'll get 10 castings of Darkness per day.
There are a number of things missing in this build that one usually takes, such as EWS and Armor Skin, but I think it's still quite playable and overall not too bad. Of course, with only 14 WIS, you miss out on your level 5 and 6 Cleric slots, but the stringent requirements deny that as an option. Also, there are some feats that can easily be switched for others pre-epic if one desires. _________________ It's rogue, dammit, ROGUE!!!
Edited By Cinnabar Din on 10/07/06 18:28
Hmmm....the plot thickens. Not bad, not bad at all. I really like the number of Darknesses you can cast a day. Can you find a way to get EWS in the build while still avoiding the XP issue and still maintaining a 42AB? _________________ Got Hommlet? World of Greyhawk Action Server (with 1/2 price ales on Mondays!)
Ariel, Ookla, RIDE!
Here's the dual wielder. I'm keeping Bard, cause I'm in love with them lately. Check it out.
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Rogue(19), Bard(11), Fighter(10) Halfling, any non lawful PvM, Playable 1-40
Also, this way it is still open to RDD, PM or Paladin cheese. And as it is, it has a somehow elegant look.
I agree. It's beautiful in it's simplicity, and much better than the crap I was coming up with. I think it might even be possible to dip into Rogue for 3 levels, grab Evasion and more skill points, and toss the final 3 BG levels, and still keep the 10d6 sneak.
Rogue 3 should be a possibility, but when planning the build on the CBC I got ISA marked as red (even though BG+Rogue's SA amounted to +9d6). I'll have to check it out in a leveler module.
It's indeed an elegant solution, it would be a pity if it were an impossible one. _________________ Heavy metal Or no metal at all Whimps and posers Leave the hall!
Here's the dual wielder. I'm keeping Bard, cause I'm in love with them lately. Check it out.
Ahh, now that's the stuff! If I'm not mistaken, this one may be better than the first two, but I think the first two were more playable pre-epic. The only problem I see is that it takes a while before one gets a healthy dose of Darkness/Ultravision going.
Can anyone trump this one? Looking in the Search Engine, all 3 of these seem to be unique builds.
Rogue 3 should be a possibility, but when planning the build on the CBC I got ISA marked as red (even though BG+Rogue's SA amounted to +9d6). I'll have to check it out in a leveler module.
It's indeed an elegant solution, it would be a pity if it were an impossible one.
Actually, it can't work due to 8d6sneak needing to come from a single class. Since you gain 3d6sneak on BG25, adding Rogue3 would still leave you 1 short to meet the 10d6 build prereq. _________________ Got Hommlet? World of Greyhawk Action Server (with 1/2 price ales on Mondays!)
Requirements 9. Must have a minimum of 4 attacks per round without arcane/divine means.
Small addendum: will allow for 4 apr via Divine Power. That should open up the field a bit. _________________ Got Hommlet? World of Greyhawk Action Server (with 1/2 price ales on Mondays!)
Hmmm....the plot thickens. Not bad, not bad at all. I really like the number of Darknesses you can cast a day. Can you find a way to get EWS in the build while still avoiding the XP issue and still maintaining a 42AB?
Nope. I tried, but I don't think it's possible. You'll either incur an XP penalty, or lose 1d6 sneak attack. _________________ It's rogue, dammit, ROGUE!!!
Quote: Posted 10/07/06 22:01 (GMT) -- Cinnabar Din
Hmmm....the plot thickens. Not bad, not bad at all. I really like the number of Darknesses you can cast a day. Can you find a way to get EWS in the build while still avoiding the XP issue and still maintaining a 42AB?
Nope. I tried, but I don't think it's possible. You'll either incur an XP penalty, or lose 1d6 sneak attack.
What if you rearranged your level spread pre-epic, and frontloaded Rogue so as to make it from the get-go the Human's favored class, and had Fighter and Cleric bring up the rear at 5/5 split. So it could be something like Rogue10/Fighter5/Cleric5, or Rogue9/Cleric6/Fighter5, and relied on Divine Power to lift you to your 4th attack? You lose some feats (KD, IKD), but wasn't looking for those anyway. Consequently, you could maybe lower Int to 12 and raise Wis 1 more point.
I don't know....maybe we're just tilting at windmills.
Requirements 9. Must have a minimum of 4 attacks per round without arcane/divine means.
Small addendum: will allow for 4 apr via Divine Power. That should open up the field a bit.
Does Divine Power count also for the AB requirement? In such a build a 4th attack granted by divine power most probably means an unbuffed AB lower than 42 (around 38-39), with DP it would be something like 44-45.
Cheers, Kail _________________ Heavy metal Or no metal at all Whimps and posers Leave the hall!
Does Divine Power count also for the AB requirement? In such a build a 4th attack granted by divine power most probably means an unbuffed AB lower than 42 (around 38-39), with DP it would be something like 44-45.
If one uses DP, and exploits it well, we can lower the AB standard to 41 base-- but no lower ya scoundrels! _________________ Got Hommlet? World of Greyhawk Action Server (with 1/2 price ales on Mondays!)
Ariel, Ookla, RIDE!
Something similar to what CD did, but DEX based, halfling, exploiting DP but still meeting the original AB and apr requirement since it goes dual wielding, gets WS/EWS, late CS, ED at 24th lvl, no XP penalty (I'm sure the lvling can be tied up a little, but hey, this is a drafted build after all), 11 darknesses + extended ultravision or 12 darknesses + extended true seeing, clerical buffs and domain powers and what-not. Enjoy.
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Rogue(19), Cleric(11), Fighter(10) Halfling, any alignment PvM, Playable 1-40
Cheers, Kail _________________ Heavy metal Or no metal at all Whimps and posers Leave the hall!
Edited By Kail Pendragon on 10/08/06 00:25
This is nearly a mirror reflection of what I came up with. The only differences are CS at 33rd, EWS at 29th, and I chose Animal and Strength domains. Animal for Cats Grace and Truesight at 3rd level, and Strength for DP at 3rd level. War is still a good one, and Trickery sort of loses playability since one has to wait a long time before accessing 5th level spells.
Okay, thanks Kail and Cin. It appears to be largely a 2 man effort. I shall reflect on these, and announce the winner shortly. There might be a dark horse still in the running. _________________ Got Hommlet? World of Greyhawk Action Server (with 1/2 price ales on Mondays!)
Ariel, Ookla, RIDE!
Well, reign in yer horses Dwarflord. The Norseman just entered the field. I'll have a quick go and see what I come up with. I might not win or even come close, but noone shall say I went down without throwing a few punches!
Be right back.....
Well, since I came in late in the fight I throw a major sucker-punch. a Dwarven assassin. Might not be the best, but it fits the requirements. Several of them just barely, but still....
Let's check the Dwarflords demands then: Requirements 1. Must be able to cast Darkness multiple times a day-- 3 minimum. UMD will not be counted to arrive at this figure. Yep. 1 as assassin and the rest from cleric.
2. Ultravision (or Truesight) spell must have minimum 10 hour duration. First of all, Truesight won't help you in darkness, but his ranger ultravision covers 11h, or extended Cleric ones.
3. Need a minimum of 42 AB, before buffs/enhancements Well, took a shortcut here to fit in 5th level Cleric-spells and Armor skin, but he has 41 AND DP.
4. Must have minimum of 10d6 sneak dice (Rogue, Assn, BG,ISA or any combination thereof) Yeah, assassin20 gives 10d6.
5. Can be Strength or Dex-based He is...
6. If Dex-based, it must have Epic Dodge by Level 27. ...
7. Any race, but NO XP penalty anywhere in the build. No xp penalty to be seen. Until after he is finished that is....
8. Must have damage sources other than by Sneak Attacks (e.g., WS/EWS, Bane, Strength, etc.) He's strong.
9. Must have a minimum of 4 attacks per round without arcane/divine means. Yep. BAB 27.
10. Cannot have less than 30 AC (either naked or mundane equipment) AC 31 in full-plate and tower.
11. Cannot have fewer than 375 hitpoints 382. More was well within reach except for some strict demands....
12. Cannot have fewer than 250 skill points. He has 283, but this forced me to start with 16 INT, Else I would end up at 240. Grrr....
13. Must have 20+ base saves in all 3 save categories (Spellcraft, HS bonus, etc will not be counted) Ref save is 20. Had to start with 10 dex and take lightning reflexes, but it became 20.
14. It must be playable from 1-40, PvM It should be, but it would be more playable if he could have 19 REF save and 240 skillpoints.
Note: If you make him human you can more easily meet the demands, but at this point in the competition I felt that only a big hit from down below would even get my fella considered. If you don't accept the 41 AB the way I did it Grizz, then tell me and I'll post the human version. He gets it to 42. But he isn't a Dwarven assassin.
That should be it for now.
Rock on. _________________ Dragonlance ROH is back, better than before! and I spend a little time here WoG
Nice to see you back at it buddy. I was thinking of something along these lines too but hadn't had the time to actually build it yet. A note, True Seeing does help with Darkness, but on many PWs it is altered.
Cheers, Kail _________________ Heavy metal Or no metal at all Whimps and posers Leave the hall!
Edited By Kail Pendragon on 10/08/06 13:19
Good one, Grim. You actually used the classes that one would think to use in such a build, and made it work. Why I couldn't do it is beyond me. So that's 4 entries. Or is it 5? What is everyone's opinions? Which do you think best represents the ideal of the "Blade of the Ultra-violet?"
To muddy matters a bit further, here's something I've been tinkering on, and somehow it managed to meet all the requirements. The only snafu is that Darkness/Ultravsion combos don't get cooking until Epic, and it might be a tad challenging to play in Lvls 1-8.
Bonuses: Stacking Bulls Evasion Charisma synergy +3d6 more sneak than required High Taunt High Damage output
Negatives: 420 no great shakes for a Strengther Saves just squeak by No Improved Critical (though IKD could be sacked) Levels 1-8 tough due to armor restrictions Darkness/Combo not actualized until Epic _________________ Got Hommlet? World of Greyhawk Action Server (with 1/2 price ales on Mondays!)
Nice to see you back at it buddy. I was thinking of something along these lines too but hadn't had the time to actually build it yet. A note, True Seeing does help with Darkness, but on many PWs it is altered.
Cheers, Kail
Pretty sure True seeing doesn't protect you from sneak attacks. I have no computer to play NwN on atm, so someone else must check it out. I actually thought you couldn't even target enemies with spells in Darkness if you only have true seeing. Since you two claim otherwise I am most certainly wrong. _________________ I see the fear you have inside, you can run but never hide. I will hunt you down and tear you limb from limb.
I run the Pre-Epic Builders guild. Join and share your experience.
Try testing it offline when you get the opportunity Grim, pick a cleric and fight a rogue for example: you'll see that with True Seeing active you won't get hit by sneaks while in darkness, provided you are engaged in combat of course. Instead without true seeing sneaks will carve you up like a pumpkin in no time, engaged or not. _________________ Heavy metal Or no metal at all Whimps and posers Leave the hall!
Edited By Kail Pendragon on 10/08/06 14:51
Some of these look real hard to better. Tried a halfling rogue/wiz/CoT, met all the requirements, save the AB. Only 2 short! Anyway, might do a bit more fiddling and see if I can tweak it to perfection.
Kurth
Edited By K U R T H on 10/08/06 19:39
If it's not too late, here's one more way to skin a cat, though I'm not sure it's better than any of the others that have already been posted. It's actually quite similar to Cinn's build except I went for the sweet spot at Cleric 15 and maximum effective use of DP. Ended up using the COT levels to get wisdom up high enough to cast 6th level spells. I would normally have sacrificed some of the starting strength to shore up other attributes but couldn't have made the 41 AB without it.
Level 01: Cleric(1): Weapon Proficiency Martial, Toughness Level 02: Cleric(2) Level 03: Cleric(3): Weapon Focus Level 04: Cleric(4): STR+1, (STR=19) Level 05: Cleric(5) Level 06: Cleric(6): Extend Spell Level 07: Cleric(7) Level 08: Cleric(8): STR+1, (STR=20) Level 09: Rogue(1): Knockdown Level 10: Rogue(2) Level 11: Rogue(3) Level 12: Rogue(4): STR+1, Improved Critical, (STR=21) Level 13: Rogue(5) Level 14: Rogue(6) Level 15: Rogue(7): Still Spell Level 16: Rogue(8): STR+1, (STR=22) Level 17: Cleric(9) Level 18: Cleric(10): Blind Fight Level 19: Cleric(11) Level 20: Cleric(12): STR+1, (STR=23) Level 21: Rogue(9): Epic Weapon Focus Level 22: Rogue(10): Crippling Strike Level 23: Rogue(11) Level 24: Rogue(12): STR+1, Great Strength I, (STR=25) Level 25: Rogue(13): Improved Evasion Level 26: Rogue(14) Level 27: Rogue(15): Great Strength II, (STR=26) Level 28: Rogue(16): STR+1, Improved Sneak Attack I, (STR=27) Level 29: Champion of Torm(1) Level 30: Champion of Torm(2): Great Strength III, Armor Skin, (STR=28) Level 31: Champion of Torm(3) Level 32: Champion of Torm(4): STR+1, Epic Prowess, (STR=29) Level 33: Champion of Torm(5): Great Strength IV, (STR=30) Level 34: Champion of Torm(6): Great Wisdom I, (WIS=15) Level 35: Cleric(13) Level 36: Cleric(14): STR+1, Great Strength V, (STR=32) Level 37: Cleric(15) Level 38: Champion of Torm(7) Level 39: Champion of Torm(8): Great Strength VI, Great Wisdom II, (STR=33), (WIS=16) Level 40: Rogue(17): STR+1, (STR=34)
Hitpoints: 382
Saving Throws (Fortitude/Will/Reflex): 25/27/23 BAB: 25 AB (max, naked): 41 (melee), 25 (ranged) AC (naked/mundane armor/shield only): 19/30
Spell Casting: Cleric(6) 6/7/7/7/5/5/4
Skillpoints: 274 Discipline 42(54) Spellcraft 39(40) Tumble 40(39) UMD 42(41) Remaining 111 _________________ In order to find his equal, an Irishman is forced to talk to God. Yes, Father. The Almighty says don't change the subject; just answer the &%$#@& question.
What's Still spell for? Lemme guess... stilling lvl 6 not extendable spells in lvl 7 spell slots, right? I'd drop IC or WP: martial for Empower spell, for further utility and spellbook management.
Nice lvl split me likes it. I was working on something similar too, but my kids kept me busy. Pity for the missing wisdom. Not much to do about it: actually you can start Rogue (+24 skillpoints) WIS 15, INT 10 and still meet all the requirements.
Cheers, Kail _________________ Heavy metal Or no metal at all Whimps and posers Leave the hall!
I haven't run this through a trainer, but the numbers seem to work. It is a bit fragile early on, but the RDD Strength and AC bonuses will help (along with Flame Weapon).
Rogue 17 / Sorc 8 / RDD 15
Human
STR 16 (40) DEX 15 CON 14 (16) INT 10 (12) WIS 8 CHA 12 (14)
Hehe, I just realized that I forgot to include the Stat modifiers in my Fortitude and Reflex Saves
They should be: Fortitude 35 Reflex 22
This would allow you to drop Luck of Heroes and take something else instead; perhaps Still Spell to put some Stilled Hastes in spell slot 4.
Cheers.
Holy Pearl Harbor, Batman! I totally did not see those last two builds coming. Highlander, what would your build look like if it were Half-orc and you didnt have to worry about meeting skill point requirements? And dmuzzy, what the crap? That's very original. I like it. I like it a lot.
Ariel, Ookla, RIDE!
My first thought was Cleric/Rogue/CoT. Never thought of RDD for some reason, though it is quite logical AC and AB bonuses counted for. _________________ I see the fear you have inside, you can run but never hide. I will hunt you down and tear you limb from limb.
I run the Pre-Epic Builders guild. Join and share your experience.
Holy Pearl Harbor, Batman! I totally did not see those last two builds coming. Highlander, what would your build look like if it were Half-orc and you didnt have to worry about meeting skill point requirements?
Much better than I thought. With a little change in starting stats and some creative leveling, I was able to meet all of your requirements except skill points and only missed that by one. It does get 40 more hit points and more style points than the original though.
Cleric(15), Rogue(17), Champion of Torm(8), Half-Orc
Level 01: Rogue(1): Weapon Proficiency Martial Level 02: Cleric(1) Level 03: Rogue(2): Weapon Focus Level 04: Cleric(2): STR+1, (STR=19) Level 05: Rogue(3) Level 06: Cleric(3): Extend Spell Level 07: Rogue(4) Level 08: Cleric(4): STR+1, (STR=20) Level 09: Rogue(5): Knockdown Level 10: Cleric(5) Level 11: Rogue(6) Level 12: Cleric(6): STR+1, Improved Critical, (STR=21) Level 13: Rogue(7) Level 14: Cleric(7) Level 15: Rogue(8): Still Spell Level 16: Cleric(8): STR+1, (STR=22) Level 17: Champion of Torm(1) Level 18: Champion of Torm(2): Toughness, Blind Fight Level 19: Champion of Torm(3) Level 20: Cleric(9): STR+1, (STR=23) Level 21: Rogue(9): Epic Weapon Focus Level 22: Rogue(10): Crippling Strike Level 23: Cleric(10) Level 24: Cleric(11): STR+1, Great Strength I, (STR=25) Level 25: Rogue(11) Level 26: Rogue(12) Level 27: Cleric(12): Great Strength II, (STR=26) Level 28: Rogue(13): STR+1, Improved Evasion, (STR=27) Level 29: Champion of Torm(4): Armor Skin Level 30: Champion of Torm(5): Great Strength III, (STR=28) Level 31: Champion of Torm(6): Great Wisdom I, (WIS=16) Level 32: Champion of Torm(7): STR+1, (STR=29) Level 33: Cleric(13): Great Strength IV, (STR=30) Level 34: Rogue(14) Level 35: Rogue(15) Level 36: Cleric(14): STR+1, Great Strength V, (STR=32) Level 37: Cleric(15) Level 38: Rogue(16): Improved Sneak Attack I Level 39: Champion of Torm(8): Great Strength VI, Epic Prowess, (STR=33) Level 40: Rogue(17): STR+1, (STR=34)
Hitpoints: 422
Skillpoints: 249
Saving Throws (Fortitude/Will/Reflex): 27/26/25
BAB: 25 AB (max, naked): 41 (melee), 25 (ranged) AC (naked/mundane armor/shield only): 19/30
Spell Casting: Cleric(6) 6/7/7/7/5/5/4
Discipline 42(54) Spellcraft 39(40) Tumble 40(39) UMD 42(40) 86 Remaining _________________ Him? That can't be William Wallace. I'm prettier than this man.
If the polls haven't closed yet, I have another entry. It's not as pretty as the others (ie. only 10 strength), but for the sake of thoroughness, I figured I should post it.
That's funny _________________ "With Europe liberated, the people of the world turned their attention to that old devil, the United States of America [...] We taught that monster of old the true meaning of freedom." Star Wreck
Okay. Time for a re-cap of what we got, and to make a judgement. Lots of great builds, and I think for the most part quite original and worthy of EBG submission. Let's summarize.
Kail Pendragon (has 3 entries)
1. Class: Human Bard15/Blackguard25; strength-based; good spells, utilizes Bard potential, no Rogue feats
2. Class: Halfling Rogue19/Bard11/Ftr10: Dex-based, Epic Dodge, CS, EWS, but takes awhile to get Darkness/Ultra combo cooking
3. Class: Halfling Rogue19/Cleric11/Ftr10: Dex-based, Epic Dodge, CS, EWS, Divine Power expoit, great damage, matures early _________
Cinnabar Din
1. Class: Human Rogue 17/Ftr12/Cleric11; Strength-based, no DP exploit, no EWS __________
Grminir77
1. Dwarf Ranger11/Cleric9/Assassin20; Strength-based, no DP exploit, no Rogue bonus feats or Rogue skill points, 16Int in a melee build
___________
Grizz
1. Human Sorc8/Rogue13/BG19; Strength based, good damage, Darkness/Ultra matures late ___________
Highlander44
1. Human Cleric15/Rogue17/CoT8; strength-based, DP exploit, good damage, better saves, CS, maxes Cleric potential
2. Half-Orc Cleric 15/Rogue17/CoT8; same as above, loses skill points, gains style points and hit points ____________
dmuzzy
1. Human Rogue17/Sorc8/Rdd15; high strength, very unique, CS, matures earlier than one would predict
2. Halfling Rogue21/Figther9/Wizard10; dex-based, Epic Dodge, matures early, could probably still squeeze in Ftr10 if he tried.
____________
Okay, that's quite a bit to look at it and evaluate. Hopefully I summed up the highlights accurately. At first glance, I'm leaning toward Kail's #3, Highlander's #2 and dmuzzy's #1. I need some other experts to chime in, and see which is the best to their liking. _________________ Got Hommlet? World of Greyhawk Action Server (with 1/2 price ales on Mondays!)
Ariel, Ookla, RIDE!
Edited By grizzled_dwarflord on 10/10/06 15:12
I gotta go with the Highlanders no.2. But had cinn's had EWS I would go with his'. Kails Bard/BG is a combo I really like all the aspects of, but still, Highlander 2 has my vote this time. _________________ I see the fear you have inside, you can run but never hide. I will hunt you down and tear you limb from limb.
I run the Pre-Epic Builders guild. Join and share your experience.
Since the outcome has yet to be decided ......If it's not too late, I'd like to enter a dark horse into the race. Although not as powerful as most of the other entries, this build makes up for much of it with shear style and RP opportunity. He meets all of the criteria established for the challenge with the exception of skill points (he falls 12 points shy) and begs the judges to accept him on the half-orc waiver.
This is a unique build in the guilds. The only other build using these classes is the Dwarflord's own Battle Shaman of The One Eyed Gruumsh Click Here and that is a cleric heavy build.
Advantages: Greater Rage (+6 Str & Con = +3AB & Damage & 120 HP) Terrifying Rages (Let them cower in the darkness as you rain down sneaks.) Barbarian Speed Taunt as a Class Skill(once there scared and in the dark, there's nothing better than a little taunting to ice the cake.) Poison Use, Invisibility & Improved Invisibility Mucho Style Points
Disadvantages Feat & Skill Starvation No evaision or crippling strike Saves make the cut, but barely. Low caster level limits spell duration & impact. No extended Ultravison until Epic levels. _________________ Him? That can't be William Wallace. I'm prettier than this man.
Edited By Highlander44 on 10/11/06 16:37
Quote: Posted 10/11/06 16:00 (GMT) -- Highlander44 this build makes up for much of it with shear style and RP opportunity. He meets all of the criteria established for the challenge with the exception of skill points (he falls 12 points shy) and begs the judges to accept him on the half-orc waiver.
I always give Half-orcs a waiver. There just too fun not to. This one looks like a lot of fun (Half-orc Barb/Assassins just are). However, in spite of a strong showing, I think your first Half-orc still has this one beat. Also, note that builds that use Assassin exclusively cannot make use of ISA feats. _________________ Got Hommlet? World of Greyhawk Action Server (with 1/2 price ales on Mondays!)
However, in spite of a strong showing, I think your first Half-orc still has this one beat.
I agree, this one just adds the RP opportunity for the Barbaric side of the Half-Orc heritage. The first Half-Orc is stronger and more playable through its life.
Quote: Also, note that builds that use Assassin exclusively cannot make use of ISA feats.
Arrgh! Had forgotten that pesky little detail (don't normally go the assasin route). Make that two waivers and I'll throw in a head model with a bone through it's nose! _________________ In order to find his equal, an Irishman is forced to talk to God. Yes, Father. The Almighty says don't change the subject; just answer the &%$#@& question.
Quote: Posted 10/11/06 15:31 (GMT) -- Grimnir77
I gotta go with the Highlanders no.2. But had cinn's had EWS I would go with his'. Kails Bard/BG is a combo I really like all the aspects of, but still, Highlander 2 has my vote this time.
Yeah, I agree, but I'm having a hard time trying to shake Kail's Halfling Rogue/Cleric combo. The Divine Power exploit in that is sick because he already starts with an AB in the 40s. He's doing all that nasty Cleric damage, on top of the Rogue sneaks and EWS amd CS, and then has Epic Dodge and Improved Invis and high AC for defense.... It's a pretty mean build, and might best represent the ideal of the "Ultra-Violet Hunter."
Someone convince me otherwise. _________________ Got Hommlet? World of Greyhawk Action Server (with 1/2 price ales on Mondays!)
Ariel, Ookla, RIDE!
No argument here. That's a sickly-sweet combo he's built. Looks like you have enough builds here to start an Ultraviolet society though. So, uh, how much do we charge for our 'services'? _________________ It's rogue, dammit, ROGUE!!!
Well, judging at level 40, I would also have to concur with you on Kail's Halfling build. I would follow it quickly with Highlanders first build (I'm partial to Human, but that's just me). As most other requirements are nearly the same (AB, AC, etc), I think that Epic Dodge is going to tip things in its favor.
However, for the actual leveling process, I think that I would prefer Highlanders build, I like how the Cleric buffs are their undiluted early on, and then the Rogue comes in to add sneaks and skills. I also like the 15 levels in Cleric for the +5 in GMW and Divine Favor. I also like Crippling strike so early on.
But, again, at level 40 I think Kail's has the edge.
Cheers.
At the end of the day, it comes down to your preference Grizz. Both builds (Kail's & mine) are solid. If we break it down a little, it may help with the decision. For comparison purposes, I am going to assume that Kail's Halfling is dual wielding daggers and that my Half Orc is wielding a one handed weapon for the shield benefit. I am also going to assume that Kail's build would have access to Cat's Grace as a domain spell as it is dex based.
Hit Points - Halfling 382 - Half Orc 424
Skill Points - Halfling 261 - Half Orc 249
Offense - Halfling
Unbuffed Attack Schedule Halfling - 40/35/40 Main Hand - 40/35 Off Hand Half Orc - 41/36/41
Buffed Attack Schedule - Base + Fixed Buffs + DF + GMW + Stat(CG or BS) Halfling - 59/54/49/59 Main Hand - 59/54 Off Hand Half Orc - 63/58/53/63
In summary, I'm forced to concede that Kail's build is probably the better build. The extra attacks more than make up for the 6 points of difference in damage and Halflings of Doom are just about as high on the style point scale as Half Orcs. Damn, always the bridesmaid, never the bride _________________ In order to find his equal, an Irishman is forced to talk to God. Yes, Father. The Almighty says don't change the subject; just answer the &%$#@& question.
Edited By Highlander44 on 10/12/06 20:50
Hell, I don't even get invited to the ceremony... _________________ It's rogue, dammit, ROGUE!!!
Okay. I did this one almost as a joke, but in retrospect he actually isn't bad. His Rogue side develops early, he gets the Cleric combo (Darkness/Ultravsion/Divine Power) going early, gets Epic Dodge at Level 21, gets SC V, has the same AB as Kail's Halfling, and easily makes all the Save Requirements. However he falls about 100 hit points shy of the hit point mark, so that's automatic disqualification. At the end of the day, I don't think he's as playable as Kail's until Level 21.
Hide: 40 Move Silently: 40 Tumble: 40 Discipline: 40 UMD: 36 52 remaining _________________ Got Hommlet? World of Greyhawk Action Server (with 1/2 price ales on Mondays!)
Ariel, Ookla, RIDE!
Hmm sorry for posting here(if I wasn't allowed to) but I got some questions about that build(atleast the 2 winning builds).
I have tried several times some builds from the site but fail miserably because I have no idea what is the recommended equipment for the character or the equipment it would most highly need to survive.
About those two builds, what equip would be excellent for them? Heavy, Light or Medium armor(then what specific armor in that category, like Full Plate armor). What amulets type, rings, bracers or gloves, belts or boots it would benefit from. And what helm would it be better of with. Also cloak.
I dont know a thing about build making but I somethings try to come up with things that would be unexpected on the servers. That is my reaction when I read about those two builds(the ones that grizzled_dwarflord likes most). I also like the made up name: Blades of the Ultra-Violet
Quote: Posted 10/26/06 16:36 (GMT) -- Flex1
Hmm sorry for posting here(if I wasn't allowed to) but I got some questions about that build(atleast the 2 winning builds).
I have tried several times some builds from the site but fail miserably because I have no idea what is the recommended equipment for the character or the equipment it would most highly need to survive.
About those two builds, what equip would be excellent for them? Heavy, Light or Medium armor(then what specific armor in that category, like Full Plate armor). What amulets type, rings, bracers or gloves, belts or boots it would benefit from. And what helm would it be better of with. Also cloak.
Good questions. With regard to equipment, it's a bit of a work in progress. One should always be shifting things around throughtout level progression, and even throughout individual battles. Equipment should never be static. Typically, equipment that I go for the most on Dex builds are AC items. Remember which AC types don't stack, and go from there. It does no good to wear a +3 Cloak of Protection and a +2 Ring of Protection, as the 2 don't stack. So, you need one item that grants Deflection AC (either Ring or Cloak, in some cases Boots or Helms will offer this, too), one item that grants Natural AC (usually an Amulet, but can also be covered via scroll, or Barkskin potion/spell), one item that grants Dodge AC (usually Boots of the Sun Soul that can be worn if your UMD is high enough), and then Armor and/or Shield AC. Armor AC can be gained directly through enchanted armor bonuses, or Bracers, and in case of Dexers, there are Robes or Clothes that will grant Armor AC. Also, even if one doesn't use a Shield, it's a good idea to keep one handy in case you need the AC. A +3 Large Shield is instant +5 AC, and can go a long way against high AB hitters.
It is also wise to have items that increase Strength in case you are having a hard time doing damage because the creatures have Damage Resistance, Reduction, heavy hit points or are Regenerators, or are immune to sneaks and crits. Whatever you can do to increase damage output is a good idea.
And just in case you don't have the spells available, it is wise to have Scrolls or items that can grant the following: Immunity to Mind Affecting Spells (Lesser Mind Blank, Clarity, Protection from Evil, etc.), Immunity to Death Magic (Belt of Guiding Light, Death Ward, etc.), and items that may grant some form of Damage Resistance, such as Swordsman's Belt, Brawlers Belt or Archers Belt. I will try to seek one of each and, if available, the Greater versions of these.
In most of the builds outlined in this thread, the characters have the ability to cast Arcane and Divine scrolls. This provides for huge flexibility. This means you can cast the best buffs. Typically, things like Stoneskin, Greater Stoneskin, Improved Invis, Premonition, Shadowshield, Bulls, Cats, Flame Weapon/Darkfire/Divine Favor/Bless Weapon, etc. If you can find them, and if you can afford it, I will try to find such scrolls and stockpile them. If not, I have been known to take Scribe Scroll and make my own. In the Cleric build, how cool is it to have him Scribe a 10-pack of Divine Powers or Darkfires, and thus save his spell slots for other spells or Spontaneous Heals?
But much of this is environment dependent. Some of this you'll be able to do, and some of it not. You have to be semi-familiar with the limitations and magic levels of your world.
Feel free to ask more questions. There's plenty of veterans around here that can add more than what I can. _________________ Got Hommlet? World of Greyhawk Action Server (with 1/2 price ales on Mondays!)
Well, since I came in late in the fight I throw a major sucker-punch. a Dwarven assassin. Might not be the best, but it fits the requirements. Several of them just barely, but still.... 
Anyway, might do a bit more fiddling and see if I can tweak it to perfection.
