I have been on the forums a while, but hardly posted. I recently got back into NWN, and would like to start
playing on some PWs. This is my first post here.
I am seeking a build for a high magic world, epic level.
I would say that I am familiar with the game, but a noob when it comes to the D&D ruleset, so I apologize in
advance if what I am asking for is nubbish/stupid/impossible.

Could anyone come up with a build that fulfills the following:

must have:
-dual wield katanas
-playable 1-40
-PvP & PvM
-toughness
-epic dodge & slippery mind (if rogue-ish primarily)
-impr. expertise, wpn focus, impr. crit, epic focus & prowess (if fighter-ish primarily)
-shadowdancer & whirlwind /OR/ assassin & 30 base str or dex
-armor skin (if fighter-ish primarily)
-epic fort
-epic will

would like to have, but not required:
-stealthy/sneaky stuff
-high HP; Hp very important
-self concealment
-impr. knockdown

must not rely on/have:
-dev.crit
-cleave

Before I continue, I have read the last dual-wielding katana thread (Click here), and have searched the build index. I found a number of builds, but none that fit my above criteria, or I just didn't like them. I'm also not good at char. building at all, so I don't know what feats to take out and replace with the ones I need, in case I did come accross a build that can fit my template. However, there is one build by grizzled_dwarflord (Click here) that I really like. Could that build be tailored to my needs? I wouldn't know which feats to replace while at the same time not nerfing his build. Also, if possible, I'd prefer more HP than that. My main problem is i'd love to play that build, except working in Exotic proficiency + other stuff would take away a lot from the Assassin King, no?

"Cheesy" builds are ok and preferred since this will be my first attempt at this.
I think katanas are not optimal, but I'd like to use them anyway. I realise that there are a few ways of going about
this, and they are probably drastically different from each other. One would end up being mostly rogue levels
(rogue/assassin/SD) and the another mostly fighter (ftr/WM/CoT/etc.), and so on. I don't care about class
combinations too much, I'm open to anything, as long as it kills with Katanas primarily, and has the reqs mentioned
above.

On a semi-related topic... Can anyone point me to a build where the optimal weapon is a katana? Seems for whatever you need, there is something else that fits better (unless your character is large).

Edited By Vèñöm on 12/31/06 01:02

Quote: Posted 12/31/06 00:58 (GMT) -- Vèñöm

must have:
-dual wield katanas
-playable 1-40
-PvP & PvM
-epic dodge & slippery mind (if rogue-ish primarily)


Those three just don't add up to me - Katanas are not finessable, and in order to achieve epic dodge, you'd have low strength, low WM levels, which = no AB to me, and mediumish AC.

If you wanted a strength based one, there are several duel-wielders that use cloth and katanas, and have rather good Hide/Move Silently - but low dex (around 15 or 16).
Quote: Posted 12/31/06 01:40 (GMT) -- mantis3

Quote: Posted 12/31/06 00:58 (GMT) -- Vèñöm

must have:
-dual wield katanas
-playable 1-40
-PvP & PvM
-epic dodge & slippery mind (if rogue-ish primarily)


Those three just don't add up to me - Katanas are not finessable, and in order to achieve epic dodge, you'd have low strength, low WM levels, which = no AB to me, and mediumish AC.

Ok so I guess that falls under the nubbish/stupid/impossible ctegory

Thanks for catching that. I guess that is no longer my req, but I can't edit my post anymore so it stays... so people can laugh at me Well, you can still decide if you want STR based with katanas, or switch to a different weapon (a finessable one) well, STR based with katanas, with as much of my reqs as possible Have a look at this modified Assassin King. I definitely advice against dual wielding katanas though. WP: Exotic is in there so you can go with kukris, or drop the feat for something else (Stealthy for example) and go with shortswords. The further -2 AB that katana imposes will hurt your damage output and you chances to land death attacks too (cause you will hit less).


Fighter14 /Shadowdancer1 /Assassin25
Human, Any Evil, Playable 1-40, PvP & PvM

Str16(30)
Int14
Wis8
Dex15(16)
Con14
Chr8

1 Fighter1, Dodge, Mobility, Weapon Proficiency Exotic
2 Fighter2, Knockdown
3 Fighter3, Weapon Focus: Katana
4 FIghter4, Blindfighting, Str17
5 Fighter5
6 Fighter6, TWF, Ambidexterity
7 Fighter7
8 Fighter8, Improved Knockdown, Str18
9 Fighter9, Improved TWF
10 Fighter10, Wpn Spec: Katana
11 Fighter11
12 Fighter12, Improved Criticals, Toughness, Str19
13 Fighter13, (crossclass Hide/Move Silently 8 )
14 Assassin1
15 Assassin2, Expertise, (Ghostly Visage)
16 Assassin3, Str20
17 Assassin4
18 Assassin5, Improved Expertise, (Darkness)
19 Assassin6
20 Assassin7, Str21, (Invisibility)
21 Shadowdancer1, Epic WF, (Hide in Plain Sight)
22 Assassin8,
23 Assassin9, (Improved Invis)
24 Assassin10, Great Str I, Str23
25 Assassin11
26 Assassin12
27 Assassin13, Great Str II
28 Assassin14, ESF: Move Silently, Str25
29 Assassin15
30 Assassin16, Great Str III
31 Assassin17
32 Assassin18, ESF: Hide, Str27
33 Assassin19, Great Str IV
34 Assassin20
35 Assassin21
36 Assassin22, Armor Skin, Great Dexterity, Str29, Dex 16
37 Assassin23
38 Assassin24
39 Fighter14, Epic Prowess, Epic Wpn Spec
40 Assassin25, Str30
_________________
Heavy metal
Or no metal at all
Whimps and posers
Leave the hall! Thank you for the build, Kail.

On the PW I am playing, I will be able to play a large character, so Katanas will be considered small weapons (already tested this on the PW).

I have a few questions. Since I don't want to take knockdown (immunity everywhere), I will take out KD and IKD, and put in Stealthy and Blooded? Or maybe Blooded and Impr Init? Would this be ok?

Also, is the only reason for Great Dex the +1 to skills (from 15->16)? If that's all it is there for, how about taking another feat instead of Great Dex? Or is G-Dex there for something else that I'm missing?

Thanks again!


EDIT -- sorry missed Toughness and the fact Dex 15 is Req for Ambi

Edited By Vèñöm on 12/31/06 11:39

Good thing I apologized in advance.
First I listed I wanted IKD, then I said I was taking all KDs out.

Now, I realised I can just use the original Assassin King build, take out KD and IKD, and put in Exotic Wpn and one other feat. Any suggestions for the one feat?

I'm going to look at the 4 builds I found that are SD/WM heavy, and see if I can mod them to my reqs above, then I'll post here again.

Sorry for taking you all for a ride - I apologize for the nubness, but honestly, I took myself for a ride as well.
Thank you for the help, it is appreciated. Ok, I did some shuffling. Took out EWS, moved Fighter14 up, and put Impr. Init. there.

STR 16
DEX 15
CON 14
INT 14
WIS 8
CHA 8

1 Fighter1, Dodge, Mobility, Blooded
2 Fighter2, Weapon Proficiency Exotic
3 Fighter3, Weapon Focus: Katana
4 FIghter4, Blindfighting, Str17
5 Fighter5
6 Fighter6, TWF, Ambidexterity
7 Fighter7
8 Fighter8, Stealthy, Str18
9 Fighter9, Improved TWF
10 Fighter10, Wpn Spec: Katana
11 Fighter11
12 Fighter12, Improved Criticals, Toughness, Str19
13 Fighter13, (crossclass Hide/Move Silently 8 )
14 Assassin1
15 Assassin2, Expertise, (Ghostly Visage)
16 Assassin3, Str20
17 Assassin4
18 Assassin5, Improved Expertise, (Darkness)
19 Assassin6
20 Assassin7, Str21, (Invisibility)
21 Shadowdancer1, Epic WF, (Hide in Plain Sight)
22 Assassin8,
23 Assassin9, (Improved Invis)
24 Assassin10, Great Str I, Str23
25 Assassin11
26 Assassin12
27 Assassin13, Great Str II
28 Assassin14, ESF: Move Silently, Str25
29 Assassin15
30 Assassin16, Great Str III
31 Assassin17
32 Assassin18, Str27
33 Assassin19, ESF: Hide, Great Str IV
34 Assassin20
35 Assassin21
36 Fighter14, Improved Initiative, Armor Skin, Str29
37 Assassin22, Superior Initiative
38 Assassin23
39 Assassin24, Epic Prowess
40 Assassin25, Str30

How does it look? Did I mess up anywhere? Is it decent?


Happy New Year!!!!! I would never drop EWS, that's +4 dmg vs everything.

DEX increase grants +1 ranged AB, +1 ref save, +1 initiative and +1 to dex skills. Besides, it makes it "easier" to wear lighter (and therefore "stealthier") armnor with just some minor Dex gear or even just a potion.

Keep present that superior initiative and improved initiative do not stack. Personally, I'd do without superior initiative and probably even the other initiative feats and go with EWS and save boosters.
_________________
Heavy metal
Or no metal at all
Whimps and posers
Leave the hall! Thanks for the explanation.
The reason I dropped EWS is because of reading the other thread.
Similarly, part of the reason for keeping the initiative stuff was because the original build had it, and because I read somewhere that they actually stacked.

Since you recommend taking out all the initiative stuff, that would mean Blooded goes as well, right?
So I'd have EWS instead of Superior Initiative, another save (Epic Fort/Will), or Great Dex I, instead of Improved Initiative, and.... keeping with the theme, Luck of Heroes instead of Blooded?
Quote: Posted 01/01/07 21:52 (GMT) -- Vèñöm

Thanks for the explanation.
The reason I dropped EWS is because of reading the other thread.
Similarly, part of the reason for keeping the initiative stuff was because the original build had it, and because I read somewhere that they actually stacked.

Since you recommend taking out all the initiative stuff, that would mean Blooded goes as well, right?
So I'd have EWS instead of Superior Initiative, another save (Epic Fort/Will), or Great Dex I, instead of Improved Initiative, and.... keeping with the theme, Luck of Heroes instead of Blooded?

Remember that the Assassin bonus feat cannot be any feat. You'll have to choose between Great DEX and Epic Reflexes, basically.

You can keep some of the initiative feats, like both Improved Initiative and Superior Initiative, just drop Blooded (you'll have +8 instead of +10, blooded stacks) take Imp.Init. preepic and grab EWS as your FTR bonus feat in epic (and Superior Initiative as an Assassin bonus feat). Otherwise, as you say, LoH or something else of your preference.
_________________
Heavy metal
Or no metal at all
Whimps and posers
Leave the hall! Cool, sounds good.

Thanks for all your help, appreciate it