Alright, so, I'm looking for a build no PM, RDD, Wiz, Sorc, Cleric, or Druid, that can kill a dexer in PvP. I was told that Pally/Wm would be best, but I wanted to see what you all have to say. Would like it to have dev and high AB!
Assuming you are in the same PW as in the other thread (items only up to +5), then Pally offers some nice buffs. So does Bard. So a Pally/Fighter/WM build would do well, as would the standard Ftr/Bard/RDD. The RDD build can get a higher Dev Crit DC if that is your goal, made even better with Curse Song lowering enemy saves. The Pally may be able to get higher AB with his buffs (although the Bard Song/Curse Song makes it close). But with a +5 item limit, neither of them should have too hard a time hitting most dex builds.
If True sight is not available on items, I would give the edge to the Bard build since they can use scrolls to get it. The only real danger will be HiPS spammers, and True Sight takes care of that to a large degree.
TM
Edited By Tattoed Monk on 03/19/07 02:07
The only thing with Pally/Fighter/WMs is, there's no classes for dumping points into tumble In a +5 enviroment, AC for Sword and Shield Platmail users is about 57, if they have 40 tumble...So, with 20 tumble, it would be 54, right? That seems pretty bad to me. Can you link me a good Pally/Fighter/WM, or make me one? :3
Endalyor should mention that the PW he plays on has strict PvP rules, such as no HiPSing. Also, CSing doesn't really work, at all, so sneak damage can be taken out unless you rely on high, high AB to KD (which won't happen to STR builds on this server, and rarely on DEXers unless it's spammed).
So, you'd need something that can stand and fight, not relying on sneaks, monk speed, etc.
You want to kill dexers? use a caster... you want to go PvP? use a caster, those damned casters just kill people on PvP. Seriously, no Dexer will beat a strong caster with Epic Warding, Mestil's Acid Sheath, Time Stop and IGMS.
But, hence you don't want or can't use any caster class, you can try my style: Dwarven Defenders, those Dexers will give up and run when they see they can't even damage you... there is the fact that you might have some trouble hitting them though (well, it can't be perfect) but Dexers are no big deal if they can't use HiPS.
Not sure which kind you'd like (if any), I have quite a few of 'em, taking out classes that can't be used, check this two: Woodland Dwarf (Ranger 22 / Fighter 4 / Dwarven Defender 14) and Terrifying Tank (Barbarian 16 / Fighter 6 / Dwarven Defender 18) or a Fighter 8 / Champion of Torm 4 / Dwarven Defender 28.
Edited By Thaxll'ssyllia on 03/19/07 04:28
All of the DEXers he'd be fighting are WMs, and have EWS (for the most part), so you can count on 55-60 AB and 20ish damage per hit, 60 on crits. So, I would stray from the DR if at all possible, as I don't think even a good DR build would top a WM Epic Dodging SCing DEXer.
Edited By mantis3 on 03/19/07 05:23
Well, if you don't mind an alignment change, how about something like this? This is a str-based version of my Knight Who Says "Nee!" build.
You have a decent AB (44) to start with. You have a level 16 Bard song (+2 to AB, +5 to AC, -2 to enemy AB, -5 to enemy AC, effectively +7 to your AB and and AC, +4 to all your skills, -4 to theirs to help with KDs and Taunts), very high Taunt (should get -6 to AC of anything other than Wizards with maxed Concentration), all Paladin and Bard buffing spells (Bless, Divine Favor, Bull's, Cat's, Holy Sword, Deafening Clang, Wounding Whispers, War Cry, etc.), so you should easily hit the +20 cap on AB.
Your effective AB should be 44 (base) + 20 (magic cap) + 5 (song enemy AC penalty) + 6 (Taunt AC penalty) + Str buff (at least 2 from self-buffing, plus whatever you can get from items) = 79-83. Hopefully you will land a few hits on those dexers.
You could with WM instead of CoT, but it will cost you a lot of Bard levels and be feat-starved. I think the more powerful song and buffs are better, but it's your call.
Still Spell is there for 1 reason - Balagarn's Iron Horn. It lets you cast it as a level 2 or level 3 spell. This spell is VERY useful against dexers - they have to make a Str check (not dsicipline) against Str 20, or be knocked down. While they are down, they get no Dex bonus to AC. Blow your horn, whack for a round, blow your horn, whack, etc.
TM
TM
Edited By Tattoed Monk on 03/19/07 13:26
Actually, that build looks very nice, TM. Thanks a bunch
In such an environment, why not Cleric26/Bard4/RDD10? Check out Miths build. _________________ We are sons of Odin, and the fire that we burn inside is the legacy of warrior-kings who reign above in the sky I will lead the charge, my sword into the wind Sons of Odin fights to die and live again
Check out the first post - he specified no Cleric levels. I presume due to PvP rules on the server...
TM
Can druid be taken if it's just to provide access to shifter?
Nuh uh
What level do you start at? Some PvP servers start you off at an elevated level. This will help me plan out a suggested build for you.
Good point. I took CoT to avoid an XP penalty in the build above. If you start at level 40, switch to Fighter and gain an extra feat. Drop ESF: Taunt and you can get both WS and EWS.
TM
Here's my thought: A dexer build will have a high hide/ms and basically try to be a corner sneaker. Trick is, you don't have any mages with True Sight to counter them. Well, the Ranger has Polymorph Self. The Umber Hulk has True Sight as an innate ability. That will get by their sneakyness. If you shift into UH form, and punch them, they'll feel it. A stunning fist to the head will do wonders. Umber Hulk overrides Str (23), Dex (15) and Con (19). So that's why these stats are low. If your server prevents HIPS, then take another Monk instead of Shadowdancer. That would also increase your BAB by 1.
Zombie form would prevent any Crit or Sneak damage to you. You'd still be stunning them if you can spot them. But with 64 base spot, you're doing good.
I made starting str 10 because I hate burden. You could opt for 8 if you think that will be better (since it's always overridden).
I took Sonic protection since you will be facing Bards with Wounding Wispers.
Watch out for dispellers. (paladins, bards).
Your shifted stats will modify your AB and skils (all increases).
Can druid be taken if it's just to provide access to shifter?
Nuh uh
Saw that coming... but you had to try.
How about a wisdom based fighter bard arcane archer? With the sensory buffs available to a bard, elven active search and a ridiculous ab, killing dexers should be no problem, even the ones with epic dodge. I think there was even a template laying around somewhere.
Do tell!
Meh, 20ish damage? Is that all?
A straight 30 DD w/EDR III has 30 DR. Even a nice DD 14/bard 16/rdd 10 would have 18 easy, not to mention the effects of curse song which offer a virtual +3 DR... 21 DR with all sorts of nice goodies, like fire invulnerability (darkfire? BAH!). Plus, any damage that gets through your DR has to deal with 588 HP or so.
Quote: Posted 04/06/07 00:02 (GMT) -- Ariel Thomas
Meh, 20ish damage? Is that all?
A straight 30 DD w/EDR III has 30 DR. Even a nice DD 14/bard 16/rdd 10 would have 18 easy, not to mention the effects of curse song which offer a virtual +3 DR... 21 DR with all sorts of nice goodies, like fire invulnerability (darkfire? BAH!). Plus, any damage that gets through your DR has to deal with 588 HP or so.
Can anyone say 60+(40 with the DR you speak of) damage on criticals, with a 10-20 threat range?
So... Super Dexer WM dude has:
Full Plate +5, Tower Shield +5, Ring of Protection +5, Amulet of Armor +5, Boots of Dodging +5, 13 Dex, a bag of potato chips
10 BAC +13 Full Plate +9 Tower Shield +15 ring/boot/amulet, +1 Dex, +5 AC Bard Song, +2 AC Curse Song, +2 Armor Skin +4 Defensive Stance
61 AC
Yeah, I'd say you have a point, it doesn't work. They'd hit you at least once a round, probably four times if they dual weild. Combine that with kukri and they're probably criting a little under half the time.
DDs with PM in them kills dexers. But beating dexers in a world like that isn't to bad. Bard to detect them, then perhaps fighter and WM. Just spam IKD's since they're going down on first hit. Balagarns Iron Horn (or whatever the 1st lvl bard spell is) knocks down even dexers you can't see. It's a beauty. _________________ We are sons of Odin, and the fire that we burn inside is the legacy of warrior-kings who reign above in the sky I will lead the charge, my sword into the wind Sons of Odin fights to die and live again
Well, since the OP never posted such...
The DEXers he'll be facing won't ever rely on stealth, nor hit/run tactics, nor HiPSing. So, detect can be thrown out the window.
And he cannot take more than 12 Bard levels, afaik.
Then what's the problem? Just spam KD and wave bye-bye. Even with ED you should be able to hit'em twice a round fairly often. _________________ We are sons of Odin, and the fire that we burn inside is the legacy of warrior-kings who reign above in the sky I will lead the charge, my sword into the wind Sons of Odin fights to die and live again
Saw that coming... but you had to try.
How about a wisdom based fighter bard arcane archer? With the sensory buffs available to a bard, elven active search and a ridiculous ab, killing dexers should be no problem, even the ones with epic dodge. I think there was even a template laying around somewhere.
Do tell!
Meh, 20ish damage? Is that all?
So... Super Dexer WM dude has: