hi there.

i am searching for a build for a server with the following qualities (i am trying to be as specific as i can):

- mobs do a lot of damage
- mobs have a lot of AB
- mobs have high HP
- mobs have medium AC, a naked AB of about 38-40 should be enough for a melee-character
- mobs have a high discipline score, don't expect to knockdown the highend-monsters
--> defense is king, but if you lack offense, it will take you forever to kill bosses etc.
- bosses have true seeing and are often immune to sneaks
- if possible, an UMD score of at least 55 will help to wear most of the best cross-class items
- most characters i have seen have improved expertise and epic skill focus: UMD
- all clerics take plant and trickery as domains for +5AC and improved invisibility
- harm works an most non-bosses
- mid-high magic, consider +8 weapons and about +5 armor, high end items giving a bit more (for exeample there is one certain cloak with +10 deflection, but it is really hard to get, and a +10 cloth armor).
a lot of weapons have some extra critical damage or some magic damage on them.
there are no immunities on items.
- AC should be at least 85-90 with equipment, buffs and improved expertise.
- there are no full heal potions from merchants available
- the most "efficient" characters i have seen were dex based Rogue2/Fighter10/WM28 dual wielding rapiers
- dex based, dual wielding RDDs seem quite efficient, too. (i tried to build one myself, but it did not turn out too well)
- devastating critical is disabled
- no alignment shifts (good -> evil is possible)
- i want something different, because there are already too many R/F/WM out there

if there's any information lacking please ask.
thanks for the help.

greetings
dusty

Edited By dust7 on 03/27/07 12:22

If you can change alignments, this build: Faust (Bard 26 / Paladin 4 / RDD 10)
-- FinneousPJ

If not, this build: The Skillful Minstrel (Bard 24 / FTR 6 / RDD 10)
-- Cinnabar Din
_________________
"With Europe liberated, the people of the world turned their attention to that old devil, the United States of America [...] We taught that monster of old the true meaning of freedom."
Star Wreck thanks for the two builds.
unfortunately alignment shifts are very rare on the server.

i doubt that Cin's build has enough defense since it is a strenght based build.
i see 90% of the melee-characters go dex-based since it offers a better AC and strenght bonus to damage becomes less important with good weapons that deal some magical damage.

Edited By dust7 on 03/27/07 12:28

Quote: Posted 03/27/07 12:27 (GMT) -- dust7

thanks for the two builds.
unfortunately alignment shifts are very rare on the server.

i doubt that Cin's build has enough defense since it is a strenght based build.
i see 90% of the melee-characters go dex-based since it offers a better AC and strenght bonus to damage becomes less important with good weapons that deal some magical damage.

You can do the build with only 1 alignment shift by starting with Paladin.

I think Cin's build could reach the 85 AC with some changes, with IE on. Depends on your items of course.

There's really no point in a DEX based RDD, BTW, unless going for ED/Dev Crit

You had better name something for people to start with.
_________________
"With Europe liberated, the people of the world turned their attention to that old devil, the United States of America [...] We taught that monster of old the true meaning of freedom."
Star Wreck (love the details you gave, I wish more people would follow your lead.)

My initial reaction to

(quote)
- mobs do a lot of damage
- mobs have a lot of AB
- mobs have high HP
[\quote]

was "Then don't melle them!".

I'd probably suggest a Monk Rogue build that would have Epic Dodge and SCv if possible.

Prehaps a gnome caster using Evard's Black Tentacles and other such AoE spells.

Since mobs have a medium AC, this might actually be favorable to the Shifter's mediocre AB. The Epic Drow has a nice On-Hit slow effect. You could make a Drow Weapon Master, or a Dwarven Defender Shifter who maskerades as an Epic Drow. The lack of full Heal potions would hurt a Shifter.

A Weapon Master Risen Lord would do some nice crit damage. Make sure you have a stunning Keen weapon underneath. I like Courtesan Blade (dagger) for that.

As a Shifter Weapon Master, after you get your desired form, all other levels should be used for Weapon Master to increase your AB. (A valid argument could be made for getting better Druid spells too.)

===

From the sounds of the monsters, I think your tactic should be to find a way to disable them and then chip away at them. Pure mellee battles sound like they would take awhile and be at high risk.

===

Tell me, do player spells affect party members? Rak Ice Storm for instance, Evards Tentacles, etc...
Quote: Posted 03/27/07 14:01 (GMT) -- Bromium
Tell me, do player spells affect party members? Rak Ice Storm for instance, Evards Tentacles, etc...
they don't.
and i'm suspicious of shifters.

i already have a caster out there so this time i wanted to try melee.
maybe a Rogue/Monk/Cleric.
but it's not easy to get ED, ESF:UMD, ITWF, Weapon Foci, Ambidex, Metamagic Feats and improved Expertise...

Edited By dust7 on 03/27/07 14:46

i guess i've found a really cheesy one.

Bard 26 / Blackguard 4 / Red Dragon Disciple 10

strenght based, but with divine shield and sword+board might have everything i want (since a lawful -> neutral alignment shift is not possible at the moment).

but how to figure out what the best balance between char and strenght would be?

Edited By dust7 on 03/27/07 15:58

Quote: Posted 03/27/07 15:37 (GMT) -- dust7

i guess i've found a really cheesy one.

Bard 26 / Blackguard 4 / Red Dragon Disciple 10

strenght based, but with divine shield and sword+board might have everything i want (since a lawful -> neutral alignment shift is not possible at the moment).

but how to figure out what the best balance between char and strenght would be?

Well, you can see my build uses 22/30 so I like that
_________________
"With Europe liberated, the people of the world turned their attention to that old devil, the United States of America [...] We taught that monster of old the true meaning of freedom."
Star Wreck

Edited By FinneousPJ on 03/27/07 17:28

Hmmm, you've tried spellswords? they can work good to add damage from buffs (True Strike and Flame Weapon are most common to deal high damage) and still go DEX based with also some buffs for AC... I guess you could get to make a Rogue 13 / Sorcerer 23 / Fighter 4 with Epic Dodge and Epic Warding, which might work fine.

What about ranged? heavy Arcane Archers have both high AB and damage (and are easy to make/play), so net damage inflicted is very high, with not too bad AC and low HP, but you can better flee or party tankers, archers normally work pretty good although I'm unsure how much "mobs have high HP" will affect. alright i've built a server-specific character (with the help of your Pally/RDD/Bard).
please comment on it.
note that the best weapon available is a +12 mace and taunt is only good in PvP.

Blackb(e)ard

Bard26/RDD10/BG4

Race: Human, neutral evil / chaotic evil

Str: 16 (30)
Dex: 8
Con: 14 (16)
Int: 14 (16)
Wis: 8
Char: 15 (22)

1) Bard - Power Attack, Cleave
2) Bard
3) Bard - Curse Song
4) Bard - +1 str (str 17)
5) Bard
6) RDD - Weapon Focus: Mace
7) RDD
8) RDD - +1 char (char 16)
9) RDD - Expertise
10)BG
11)BG
12)BG - Divine Shield, +1 char (char 17)
13)RDD
14)Bard
15)BG - Divine Might
16)RDD - +1 char (char 18)
17)Bard
18)RDD - Improved Critical: Mace
19)RDD
20)Bard - +1 char (char 19)

pre epic levels: Bard8/BG4/RDD8

21)RDD - Epic Weapon Focus: Mace
22)RDD
23)Bard
24)Bard - Improved Expertise, +1 str (str 26)
25)Bard
26)Bard
27)Bard - Armor Skin
28)Bard - +1 str (str 27)
29)Bard
30)Bard - Still Spell
31)Bard
32)Bard - +1 str (str 28)
33)Bard - any feat
34)Bard
35)Bard
36)Bard - ESF: Perform, +1 str (str 29)
37)Bard - Lasting Inspiration
38)Bard
39)Bard - Epic Prowess
40)Bard - Great Charisma I (char 22), +1 str (str 30)

Edited By dust7 on 03/27/07 21:06

Quote: Posted 03/27/07 21:05 (GMT) -- dust7

1) Bard - Power Attack, Cleave
2) Bard
3) Bard - Curse Song
4) Bard - +1 str (str 17)
5) Bard
6) RDD - Weapon Focus: Mace
7) RDD RDD - +1 char (char 16)
9) RDD - Expertise
10)BG
11)BG
12)BG - Divine Shield, +1 char (char 17)
13)RDD
14)Bard
15)BG - Divine Might
16)RDD - +1 char (char 18)
17)Bard
18)RDD - Improved Critical: Mace
19)RDD
20)Bard - +1 char (char 19)

pre epic levels: Bard8/BG4/RDD8

May I suggest this layout instead:


10)RDD
11)RDD
12)BG - Divine Shield, +1 char (char 17)
13)RDD
14)RDD
15)BG - Divine Might
16)Bard - +1 char (char 18)
17)Bard
18)BG - Improved Critical: Mace
19)BG
20)Bard - +1 char (char 19)

My reason (personal prefference) is to get the RDD bonuses ASAP in a build. The added AC, HD, Con, and breath are best to have early in life. Your build does not change much, you still take BG on levels where feats are taken. Bard 6 is taken @ lvl 16 rather than 14. Not a big loss there, considering you will gain RDD bonuses sooner.

I don't think it should affect your RP aspect much.

Bard @ 16 to get a better song sooner.
You might want to take BG @ 17 and Bard @ 19 to get BG buffs sooner too.

===

Just a thought. thanks for the advice.
currently trying to figure out how to do it using a martial weapon.
maces look ugly. i've made some changes to the build but it seems i can't figure out building him properly this way.

maybe one of the more experienced builders knows how to make him specialize in a martial weapon, losing still spell (for blind fight) and starting with int 12, taking the expertise feats after the RDD int boost.

this way i could start with 16 str and 16 charisma, for a free epic feat at level 40. Are you using the cbc character generator? plugging the values into that would help you alot. i am not too familiar yet with this tool.

Bromium, i tried your leveling order, but

12)BG - Divine Shield, +1 char (char 17)

is not possible, i cant select divine shield.

Edited By dust7 on 03/28/07 16:16

Ah yes, you need turn undead and that is a lvl 3 black guarf feat.

soo...

10)RDD
11)RDD
12)RDD - Improved Critical: Mace +1 char (char 17)
13)BG
14)BG
15)BG - Divine Might
16)RDD - +1 char (char 18)
17)Bard
18)BG - Divine Shield,
19)Bard
20)Bard - +1 char (char 19)

Not sure about the Improved @ 12. you'll need a BAB of 8 and your build "might" do that. I haven't plugged it into the tool yet to know.