I am looking to build a sneaker with as high MS and Hide as possible on my PW. This is for a RP build but I need to level to 40, much of the time solo. The PW is relatively high magic with easily obtainable gear of +22 to hide. True seeing is nerfed to +50 spot. (The best spotter I know of has 127).
I've always felt rangers made better sneakers due to cammo/1 with land/mass cammo but I prefer to run halfling rogues because of the sneak damage and the availability of scrolls for the aforementioned spells as well as impr invis.
Exotic proficiency is preferred as there is a socket system and kukris can have 3 extra damages added while the lowly dagger only 1. Very important with those unsneakable/crit immunes.
I've tried to modify many of the builds on the forum to results that lead me to believe I am asking for too much.
I usually go down the Ro/Fighter/SD road but am open to anything.
Here are my requirements:
halfling non-evil high hide high MS ability to do some damage in a pinch exotic
I also do not want to change alignments during the build.
Any suggestions are appreciated.
Thanks in advance.
So you say you can get hide and ms gear. does one item give 22 hide/ms or so? I that is a fact, then ranger is rendered useless except trackless steps. _________________ Valkos clueless
My numbers may be off; but I think you are looking at:
Hide/MS 43 - Skill points
+4 Hide from Small stature +2 MS from Halfling Skill Affinity +2 Stealthy +3 Skill focus Hide/MS +10 Epic Skill Focus Hide/MS +13 from Dex (figuring Dex of 36 unmodified; Adjust accordingly)
so un-adjusted for gear; you should be able to reach
75 hide 73 Move Silently
Add your +22 gear, and any Dex bonus items you can get and you are getting close. I don't see any way short of Uber gear to get higher than 100 though. How good are Dex items and Stealth gear other than that +22 one? _________________ -4SakN "never kiss a girl whose brothers have knife scars." "never gamble without knowing a back way out." -Robert Jordan
A robe of blending offers +10 to hide and there are +6 rings (+6 x 2 = 12).
Maxing Dex and dex gear is not a problem without taking Great Dex. The RoB I have actually has been enhanced to include +4 Dex.
There may be a cloak, weapon, ammy, or helm "of skill" out there with up to another +6 but I have not seen or heard of any.
Sure you don't want a shortbow version? The old Rogue Archer build is very well built.
You could interchange Arrow Types to get different Elemental Damage for known vulnerabilities in your foes.
It would also free up a feat (exotic). And prevent a negative Strength penalty on damage.
Point Blank shot might even give you +1AB if they are within 15 feet I think.
A tad late into the fray, perhaps. You said you prefered Halfling-Rogues over Rangers, but who said you can't do both, may I ask? Ranger26/SD1/Rogue13? Or a slight difference to Ranger23/SD1/Rogue16 if you want Crippling strike at the cost of 2 Ranger feats and +1 to your FE bonuses. Should get a very good Hide/MS, methinks. _________________ We are sons of Odin, and the fire that we burn inside is the legacy of warrior-kings who reign above in the sky I will lead the charge, my sword into the wind Sons of Odin fights to die and live again
Good build Grimnir, I have a little twist to it though
Instead of taking so much ranger, then focus on sneak atks. 15ranger/23rog/2sd. It is about the same as Grimnir proposed. It just has greater sneak atk.
12ranger/6rog/sd as lvl 20.
Then lvl up rog all the time and 2 ranger and some point to get your disc up and running with the char.
lvl 15 ranger should be at 39 or 40.
It depends on do you want max rog skills or ranger skills. _________________ Valkos clueless
And the amount of ranger spells you want availible to boost stealth. For skills, a ranger only has Discipline over rogue. Ranger 26 also has 3 bonus epic feats, and Bane of Enemies with a +9-19 damage vs those. _________________ We are sons of Odin, and the fire that we burn inside is the legacy of warrior-kings who reign above in the sky I will lead the charge, my sword into the wind Sons of Odin fights to die and live again
Edited By Grimnir77 on 03/29/07 10:01
Thanks for the discussion. It confirms what makes me twist in the wind. Glad no one had to point out the obvious to me.
1. I currently have a Rogue Archer with minor tweaks. Embarassingly powerful until she meets a PM and then KERSPLAT. I also just found out that there is a way (costly) that up to 5 elemental damages can be added to melee weapons, not so with bows.
2. I've loved the ranger since it was d8 with 2d8 at level one. I get all hung up on the FEs over other feats. As 4SakN points out, there are 5 "stealth" feats to take and those FEs burn up other things.
3. Going Ra/Ro/xx gives me the STR, DEX, WIS problem. True that WIS does not have to be TOO high but if going Ranger, I'd want the ability to cast mass cammo and scribe scrolls. I guess I could drop STR but I am a convert to strength-based rangers.
4. What about Bard? I'm currently having fun with christian.schnabel's Shadowsong Knight build. UMD is a lot of fun....
Thanks for this. I JUST WANT IT ALL!!!! The RP plan is to be an unseen body guard of sorts and get unnoticed into places where he should not be. The problems would come in getting out if spotted. There is always the respawn button.
I'll just take it to a leveller and see what tickles me the most. I have issues with the spreadsheet.
Have you thought of going heavy on cleric with trickery domain? You make a dex based sneaker with only enough wis to get the spells. Rogue will give you access to the skills you want. You can multiclass with SD if you want HIPS. You get less sneak damage, but the cleric spells will grant you enough damage, both from melee and damaging spells.
If you can live with the xp penalty (for halfling) you can take monk instead of rogue and get a wisdom boost to the AC (along with other goodies).
Doing this the right way gives you a cleric with epic dodge. The trickery domain power gives a serious boost to the sneaker skills. You also get the invisibility, improved invisibility, sanctuary and greater sanctuary to aid your sneaking prowess. War or animal domain gives the cleric cat's grace. Between those two domains, I think war has better spells for this kind of character. _________________ The curve is more powerful than the sword -- BG courtesan
Pip, when facing sneak immune types, fall back upon your UMD skill. Always carry along some dispell magic scrolls and maybe some flesh to stone for those PMs. Other items can provide spell firepower. But the Dispell scrolls will be handy in PvP situations. It can get rid of tier True Sight so that you can HIPS in peace.
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Cleric Trickery Domain is a good idea as well. Add a Divine Power to your sneaker and you can get a nice boost to your AB (counts towards the +20 cap). It will change the build layout a lot tho.
OK, here is my suggestion. You want strength based; but I just don't see it if you want to max your stealth so bump your strength with Scrolls and gear on this guy. His Dex is still a bit low to really be a deadly stealth-er, but it sounds as if you can compensate for that easily. Adding Strength will help your damage, while adding Dex will boost your Stealth, AC, and AB.
He gives you level 4 Ranger spells for Mass camo; UMD, Tumble, and Discipline maxed for Playability; Kukris for those nifty little add-ons you wanted ; and the complete line of shadowdancer goodies to help get out of tight spots. With Bane of enemies he will be dangerous to your key foes, though with only 3 Favored enemies you'll have to pick carefully. With Improved Evasion, Slippery Mind, and Defensive roll he will be tough to damage and kill, and with Epic Dodge and Blinding Speed he will be tough to hit at all... A level 20 Ranger Companion is useful as a decoy as well.
* You can change these feats out without breaking the build; I took ones I thought would be most useful but it will depend on your world.
Skills: Max Discipline, Hide, Move Silently, Tumble, and UMD whenever the class allows it. Use the other 23 points pretty much whenever you want, as he is never starved for Skills at any level (13 spare at level 2, this is the lowest he gets).
Well, tweak him as you like; I hope it gets you close to what you are looking for _________________ -4SakN "never kiss a girl whose brothers have knife scars." "never gamble without knowing a back way out." -Robert Jordan
Why do you start with 20 DEX, when you raise another stat during the build. You don't even use it to get Epic Dodge at lvl 21. If you start Like this:
Dex 18 Con14 Wis 14 You end the build with 2 more DEX and 2 more CON than you end yours with, at no cost at all.
*EDIT* And if you take 2 more Ranger pre-epic at the expense of SD you gain another AB at basically no cost. _________________ We are sons of Odin, and the fire that we burn inside is the legacy of warrior-kings who reign above in the sky I will lead the charge, my sword into the wind Sons of Odin fights to die and live again
Edited By Grimnir77 on 03/30/07 20:31
*nods* yeah, what he said!
Honestly, I threw it together quick trying just to fill the basics of what he was looking for. I figured he would tweak from there; but those are both excellent suggestions Grimnir, so yeah; put them in please? _________________ -4SakN "never kiss a girl whose brothers have knife scars." "never gamble without knowing a back way out." -Robert Jordan
so bump your strength with Scrolls and gear on this guy. His Dex is still a bit low to really be a deadly stealth-er, but it sounds as if you can compensate for that easily. Adding Strength will help your damage, while adding Dex will boost your Stealth, AC, and AB.
; and the complete line of shadowdancer goodies to help get out of tight spots. With Bane of enemies he will be dangerous to your key foes, though with only 3 Favored enemies you'll have to pick carefully. With Improved Evasion, Slippery Mind, and Defensive roll he will be tough to damage and kill, and with Epic Dodge and Blinding Speed he will be tough to hit at all... A level 20 Ranger Companion is useful as a decoy as well.