It's been a long time since I last touched my NWN box but this weekend has made me go back to my good ol' realm. The first build I created was my long-time favourite, the 29 rogue / 10 fighter / 1 SD. It's rather capable of what it does but it does not excell in any way. It's just an average build. Of course this differs quite alot from feat progression, but since I'm a PvP fan the cleric / rogue / SD is by far a better choice. However..
I see so many of the same old builds. It's either a blackguard with smite good or a paladin with smite evil that dominates the battlefield.. Then we have the palemaster / rdd / bard build and few but existing PM / mages. Other than those exceptions there's quite a handful of sneaks. The realm is -very- heavy on the magical items. Getting 2d12 massive crits and +17 AB is easy achievable and can be done over night even.
Without any further rambling.. What I am looking for is... A surprise... Pretty much.. Something that'd make people go: "Holy *** why didn't I think of that!" So far there has been two surprises on my realms. One of them was a blackguard / sorc / rogue build. He'd appear, time stop, slap someone around then greater sanctuary out of there as quick as he appeared. Naturally he dominated the world till people started counterspelling him when he'd make his exit. Then there was the rak.. Rak's die.. A blessed bolt and it's goodbye mr. tiger.
So what could I build? It does not have to be something with an odd gimmic.. An overly powerful mass dominating slayer of all things good or evil would be nice too. Just something that would ensure my success in PvP..
Oh.. and before I forget.. A sorceror / wizard is pretty much useless on my server seeing as IGMS has been banned along with bigby.. and with so high saves there, it's just no use.
Kindest regards,
-Sleeping Stars
Hmm. You name a lot of classes there. It seems you dont really want to use Paladin, Black Guard, Rogue/Assassin, Wizard, Sorcerer, RDD, Palemaster...or Cleric? Or, do you just not want to use those classes the same way everyone else does? What server? More information? How do you think an Arcane Archer would do? Or a nice Ranger build?
Edited By galelabriel on 06/27/07 01:55
That's difficult, you're asking for a unique build that will surprise people? well, as for checking the builds here at the guild for some time it's become somewhat hard to classify something as rare or not... so I don't really know what you like.
In such a high magical environment, perhaps my Dwarven Defenders might not be very appropriate
Arcane Archer normally kills very well, and it's good on those servers where enemies have crazy ACs, however, I doubt that's a surprise at any rate...
"So what could I build? It does not have to be something with an odd gimmic.. An overly powerful mass dominating slayer of all things good or evil would be nice too. Just something that would ensure my success in PvP.." - Quoted from the above text.
No, you're right. It's going to be dreadful hard if we were to figure something new and surprising out. That's why I mentioned that little bit above. Having slept on it I think I can narrow it down to three bits.
A sneak build would be hugely effective there. Seeing as there's +17 kukris and despite how good the armour are they will quickly find a roof whereas AB's can rocket a bit higher (usually.
An archer.. Yep.. I think they would be able to with their possible AB in the middle or high 80's would be able to be an annoyance for the rest. There's really few archer builds on my server so I'm confident that would work wonders if one could come across a high enough AB.. Hmm.. Zen archer springs to mind.
A toe-to-toe destroyer of all things which gets in his / her way. Dev Crit being unbanned on my server it might be worthwhile to check out this part. There's a few PM's around, sure. So it may not be as useful as if it was a clean server for PM's. Still, warriors can get a real decent AB so one shouldn't overrule this opportunity. Perhaps if it were to be a warrior it'd just be needed to used a bit differently? don't get me wrong, dev crit is -certainly- welcome.. with the sneaks and mages.
So to sum it up.. I do not wish to come across aggressively or as though I am restricting classes. Go for whatever you'd go for in this very high-end magical realm. You can fire away whatever springs to mind, I just need inspiration for my next PvP build. It's a little tricky! heh.
-Sleeping_Stars
ps.
To the above mentioned question about more info about the server.
Well it's hard to give other than state it's possible to achieve very high AB's. getting +12 to stat points is not impossible either. Full plates with +10 AC modifier.. err... Hmm.. Well there's no immunities. And I reckon anything goes. Aside from the IGMS and Bigby ban. Saves are high. With rings of fortitude which gives +10 to fortitude there's little a dev critter can do against other warriors aside from hoping for a roll '1'.
My educated opinion is that for high magic PWs a DEXer WM is the way to go. Yes, with Epic Dodge. _________________ " -- They give birth astride of a grave, the light gleams an instant, then it's night once more."
- Pozzo in Waiting for Godot by Samuel Beckett
Well, being unique and also awesome at PvP don't quite go hand in hand. People gravitate to the awesome PvP builds thus making them not so unique.
In a high magic world people tend to have extreme high saves. Most likely Dev Crit will only work on a VERY low save roll. If you find that Dev Crit only works if they roll a 1, then I have an alternate build for you to think about.
(*) Dancing Medusa (Druid5, Shifter16, SD 19)
pros:
It has Epic Dodge and HIPS Doesn't use AB, Instant win if they roll a 1 Doesn't have an issue with SR. Doesn't care about Epic Dodge on your foe. Doesn't care about if your foe is hiding.
Cons:
only a 1 in 20 chance of being useful lower AC in a high magic world. truesight foe will negate the HIPS aspect.
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(*) Bahl Ista (Cl 17 / Sor 13 / RDD 10)
A dev Crit Xbow that gets 5 attacks per round.
Dev DC of 46 if you have max str buff.
=========
You could make an Elder Earth Elemental/ Assasin/ SD.
Crit/sneak/mind spell immune, built in 34 str, could get up to 12d6 sneak damage, HIPS. Elder Air gets 34 Dex built in, add weapon finness for good AC and AB.
Not as strong in an high magic world tho.
========
I tend to not like high magic world. +17 weapons... what's the point. It no longer puts a focus on your build, it puts a focus on your items.
When people have an insane amount of AC I find that bypassing the need to overcome AC is better. So I would recommend the one trick pony approach.
Shifters have many skills that will bypass AC, but they get trumped by something else. Stone Gaze will realistically only work if your opponent rolls a 1. Whyrling and Dragon breath will be useless against anyone who has Improved Evasion.
*shrug*
I'm not coming up with many ideas since I don't care for high magic worlds, it's to hard to build a unique functional build for them.
Hello,
Thank you for your responses. Valid ideas certainly.. But.. Heh.. I doubt the usefulness of an archer dev-critter. The lack of AC a strength archer has would obliterate me. Realise that even though saves might be wicked a high AB (which is semi-common) would obliterate me.
I toyed around with the idea of a dexterity based weaponmaster and it seems rather intrigueing. A few builds I stopped by were appealing... But!
The weaponmaster class requirements are huge. You need a vast amount of feats. Without being a fighter you are -forced- to take at least 15 levels of rogue and then your BAB is rather trashed. After that however you get both imp evasion and defensive roll so taking epic dodge is not impossible. One SD level is a nice choice to synergyze with this level.. So a forced build that would meet the requirements of epic dodge and not be completely unable to deal damage like the monk solution would be:
15 rogue / 23 WM / 2 SD(yay for ultravision ^^)
This seems to be the only build to go for if I should follow Finn's advice of going the dex WM path.. Any ideas how to improve things? or a template to follow`? *sigh* I'm rather stuck.
No ultravision, it's Darkvision, and it's disposable.
Quote: This seems to be the only build to go for if I should follow Finn's advice of going the dex WM path.. Any ideas how to improve things? or a template to follow`? *sigh* I'm rather stuck.
-Sleeping Stars
If you go that route, then you should do Rogue17/WM22/SD1. Going human will allow you to access WM at Level 13, so you can salvage a bit more AB on that front. _________________ Got Hommlet? World of Greyhawk Action Server (with 1/2 price ales on Mondays!)
Ariel, Ookla, RIDE!
My conclusion to it is... A WM sneak just doesn't cut the mustard. It's too skill / feat starved. So I'm going to plain and simply create a dex-based WM. So far the build I made up is 15 rogue 4 fighter 21 WM. Epic dodge and all that bunch.
Any suggestions / ideas for another level split that might be better?
edited note:
I do not wish to come across as though fighter / wm / rogue is the only possibility that works. If you know an effective dex-based build then fire it away!
My conclusion to it is... A WM sneak just doesn't cut the mustard. It's too skill / feat starved. So I'm going to plain and simply create a dex-based WM. So far the build I made up is 15 rogue 4 fighter 21 WM. Epic dodge and all that bunch.
Any suggestions / ideas for another level split that might be better?
-Sleeping Stars
21 WM isnt going to do much good. If you are going with that class combo I would do 17 Rogue 4 Fighter 19 WM or 15 Rogue 6 Fighter 19 WM. Depending on whether you want a Rogue bonus feat or a Fighter bonus feat. I would personally do the 17 Rogue, since you will be able to get Improved Evasion, Defensive Roll and Epic Dodge all on bonus feats if you like and still have an extra Rogue level for late in the build to add another 1d6 sneak damage and skill dump.
Yes, I was suggesting a DEXer WM, not a sneak attacking one. There's really no point in a sneak attacker WM. _________________ " -- They give birth astride of a grave, the light gleams an instant, then it's night once more."
- Pozzo in Waiting for Godot by Samuel Beckett
Hello,
Not a sneak attacking one you say? well, how do you intend to get epic dodge if the rogue class is overruled? personally I believe that the rogue class is in many ways better than.. say.. the monk solution. The monk's damage output is exceptionally low already.. and if you make it a dex monk then.. You'd perhaps scratch your foes for 10 damage per hit (Okay so there's alot of them) but I'm not that much of an optimist! heh.
A rogue has UMD, tumble, open lock, set trap and the sneak attacks which to me makes it look like a better solution.
Maybe you could toss a class split at me so that I could see what other options would be?
-Sleeping Stars
Quote: Posted 06/27/07 14:33 (GMT) -- Bromium Well, being unique and also awesome at PvP don't quite go hand in hand. People gravitate to the awesome PvP builds thus making them not so unique.
Just as Bromium said, everybody strives for strong PvP builds so they are just not unique, say, you'll always get DEX based or Dev Crit WMs, high sneak attack SDs and Exhalted Sorcerers about everywhere unless the place is nerfed... I think your magical environment and massive crits really points good for Weapon Masters, though it's probably going to Fighter/Rogue/WM which apparently you don't want.
Quote: An overly powerful mass dominating slayer of all things good or evil would be nice too. Just something that would ensure my success in PvP..
By the way, nothing ensures success in PvP, since everybody can make the same build as you anytime, and there is no such thing as the perfect build, how do you know your enemies aren't here as well asking for builds and reading your very request?
With Time Stop un-nerfed I can't imagine a caster not working you know. Time Stop can work very good paired with Harm, I made this build that does exactly that but I wouldn't bet on it working on such a high magical environment, with those crazy ACs... just giving some ideas, you said you wanted something surprising _________________
Quote: Posted 12/19/06 19:54 (GMT) -- FinneousPJ
Thax the Shadow Dragon sez: MONKS USE KAMAS. Just ask him.
Hello,
You are looking way too much into what it is was written. No build is immortal and I never stated that is how it was.. But even as a rookie in the NWN build community you'll realise some builds are damn well better than others. It is very rare I see builders strive to make their characters weak and unplayable. There was the britney spears build I noticed one on this forum that had weak stats and such but I doubt it was copied and actually played in a PW.
Builders tweaks their builds to near perfection so that they are powerful and can ensure some sort of success in a PvP or PvE environment. As to enemies reading my post.. that's alright, I'm not really trying to be discrete (thus the post on this very forum).
Anyway,
Thaxx's idea of a (I'm guessing) 18 wizard(or sorceror) and 22 cleric was a good idea.. But as I said, saves are incredibly high and with mixed stats (int and wis) the DC (I think) just wouldn't be high enough. But it's worth a try, certainly an annoying build to face if it worked!
I think I have milked you lot for all ideas you had in mind that would be semi-successful builds made utterly for the purpose of PvP.
Thanks for your active responses and your willingness to be of assistance.
Kindest Regards,
-Sleeping Stars
When I say not a sneak attacking WM I don't mean the build mustn't have any sneak attacks at all, I mean it should not focus on sneak attack. Anyway, barring Rogue, I would consider Ftr/SD/WM if HiPS is unnerfed. In high magic the weapons' damage bonuses should be enough for good damage output; HiPS and Epic Dodge provide superb defensive capabilities. _________________ " -- They give birth astride of a grave, the light gleams an instant, then it's night once more."
Thaxx's idea of a (I'm guessing) 18 wizard(or sorceror) and 22 cleric was a good idea.. But as I said, saves are incredibly high and with mixed stats (int and wis) the DC (I think) just wouldn't be high enough. But it's worth a try, certainly an annoying build to face if it worked!
I supposed Implosion or Wail of Banshee wouldn't work with those high saves you mention, but Harm doesn't has a save, it's a touch attack, which means it takes effect as long as your AB beats their AC, it works as negative energy so if they're not immune it will work as long as the spell is not nerfed and you can hit them, bonus to AB and STR apply for your touch attack roll, so I think it can work, but I'm unsure if it will really work effectively PvP in a high environment where AC can go very high, it surely works on low magical environments There might be better ways to make a Harm specialized build, I just like how Cleric/Wizard/Monk gives a good spell and melee power balance, and having Time Stop of course
I'm not sure why you changed the class spread on Wizard and Cleric from my build, you should let the arcane class go epic for Epic Warding, you gain a lot more from epic Wizard than from Epic Cleric.
Edited By Thaxll'ssyllia on 06/29/07 04:06
In an environment with such high weapons, whatever gets the highest naked AB gets the highest AB, so a buffer is almost out. Except... Bard? Bardsong effectively reduces your opponents AC, thus increasing AB. The trick though would be to get high AB, AC and ED. That seems too tough, but possible. Fighter/Bard/SD perhaps. I usually prefer Rogues, but the the xp-penalties get trickier if you want to preserve BAB and get some feats. Dunno, maybe Bard/Rogue/CoT? Haven't done any real calculations here yet, so it might be wash.... You'll have imp invis with Bard though. Fighter4/Bard26/SD10? Rogue13/Bard21/Fighter8? Seems like late bloomers though.
For the last combo I mentioned you'll nedd Rogue13/Bard16. That's 11 levels left to split between CoT, Bard and Rogue. For the WM's, Rogue14/Fighter4/WM22 perhaps. The last Rogue level is for a skilldump in Tumble. Also, the aformentioned SD-combo could be Fighter6/W22/SD12. If you can start the build at 40, it would be fine just doing Fighter8/WM22/SD10. _________________ We are sons of Odin, and the fire that we burn inside is the legacy of warrior-kings who reign above in the sky I will lead the charge, my sword into the wind Sons of Odin fights to die and live again
There might be better ways to make a Harm specialized build, I just like how Cleric/Wizard/Monk gives a good spell and melee power balance, and having Time Stop of course 