I'm looking for a good PvP build (specifically for 1v1, but obviously can entail more) using the new subrace of Troll.
Skin: Troll Race: Half-Orc, Human
Abilities: +4 CON, -2 WIS, -2 CHA
Bonuses: Disarm Regeneration +5 Resist Energy Cold --- gains -/5 resistance Resist Energy Electrical --- gains -/5 resistance
Penalties: Damage Vulnerability Fire 50% Damage Vulnerability Acid 25%
Now, I'd *like* to take advantage of the regeneration +5 by using a build that has damage resistance (like barbarian). Discipline must be maxed and Fortitude cannot be compromised (Dev Crit). It'd also be awesome if I could take up PM or be able to shift to an undead to be immune to critical hits and sneak attacks.
Edit: This server is DeX
Edited By SubZero7 on 07/30/07 03:40
If you want damage reduction you go better with a Dwarven Defender than a Barbarian, Dwarven Defender gets 3/- DR for every 4 levels starting at level 6, those +4 CON sounds nice to take EDR easily as well.
You are a bit vague though, you want a melee, ranged, caster, buffer? I'll suppose you want a melee with whatever works best, with CON high and WIS/CHA low you could take a Fighter / Wizard / Dwarven Defender and get good DR with Wizard buffs and EWS. Even with penalty to WIS a Cleric is a strong buffer as ever.
Hmmm, shifting can have its uses, Druid's fire elemental or a red dragon should take care of your fire vulnerability and are also immune to sneaks, as a shifter the Risen Lord is the most used undead shape, it's pretty good too.
Taking Pale Master is easy as well, if you only want the crit immune stuff, take the 10 PM levels in epics so that you don't lose BAB and you're done, add Wizard for pre-requisite arcane casting and fill whatever melee class you want, Fighter, Ranger or Barbarian should work best.
Also, tell the magical environment, if it's low magic you should take some Wizard or Cleric levels for buffs, but if it's high magic it won't be critical to do so. Shifter builds work really good on low magic, but they are not as powerful in high magic. _________________
Quote: Posted 12/19/06 19:54 (GMT) -- FinneousPJ
Thax the Shadow Dragon sez: MONKS USE KAMAS. Just ask him.
Edited By Thaxll'ssyllia on 07/30/07 04:13
To answer the specifics: I assume high magic means armor can have more than +5 bonuses? If so, the answer is it's a low magic server.
1v1 PvP takes place within an arena. We start unbuffed and are given a minute or two to buff up with our own gear (whether it's memorized spells, scrolls, or wands).
I want it to be a meleer that can self-buff the important stuff (i.e. Improved Invis, See Invis but preferably True Seeing which requires 50 skill in Spot or Listen). If it'd be better to get these buffs via wands and scrolls, that's no problem.
That idea seems excellent, but what lvl split would you suggest?
Couple random thoughts:
DwD won't be an option for a troll with the 1/2 Orc base, unless the rules are changed on the server.
If you go with a Cleric build, you can cast Regenerate for +6 HPs/rnd on top of your +5 HPs per round natural regen. (Of course, you have to get your WIS high enough and enough CLC levels to cast the spell).
Is the +4 CON, -2 WIS, -2 CHA on top of the +2 STR, -2 INT, -2 CHA of the 1/2 Orc?
What's the 'top dog' PvP build on the server right now? Perhaps you can improve on it with this sub-race, or maybe find a different build that can take it down. _________________ It's rogue, dammit, ROGUE!!!
Yes, it is on top of the prior bonuses/penalties.
The best build I've seen with a troll is a Barb24/Druid6/Shifter10 for an undead shift. It also had IKD and IDisarm.
And yes, I realized that DwD is not an option. I think I'm set on a Barb Shifter, but I'm not sure how to build it. I want to have IKD and IDisarm, but I want it to especially excel in 1v1. Please help me out here.
What is your starting level?
===
Does anyone know if two Damage Vulnerabilities effects stack?
Like his 50% vulnerability from his skin, and a 50% vulnerability from Iron Golem shape?
===
I would not use the Risen Lord because it is easily countered with someone who can turn undead.
Edited By Bromium on 07/30/07 14:47
Stupid me, you need to be dwarf for DwD...
Hmmm, enter arena unbuffed with time for only a few buffs in a low magic... alright, sounds good enough for a shifter build, is there any perm-haste on armor? that is very nice for shifters.
You want a Barbarian shifter eh, well, by shifter you mean character that shifts or the shifter class? I advice not to take the shifter class because if you do then your class spread is fixed to Barbarian/Druid/Shifter, just the Druid can shift pretty good for melee. I wonder if Monks are banned, because a shifter with a monk level pretty much beats all other shifters on melee. A Barbarian 24 / Druid 14 / Monk 2 with dragon shape would mop the floor on that Barb24/Druid6/Shifter10, that's a guarantee.
I think a Ranger shifter would actually work better, Bane of Enemies is a greater power addition that what a Barbarian can provide methinks, but I don't know how to handle Favored Enemies for subraces.
I can build you up a Barbarian dragon if you want, but I want to be sure monk is not banned before wasting my time if it is, because it's hard to believe shifters aren't taking monk on purpose. I'm pretty sure you can build a dragon even with the initial WIS penalty, even if you need to take CoT instead, it would still mop the floor all those others. _________________
Quote: Posted 12/19/06 19:54 (GMT) -- FinneousPJ
Thax the Shadow Dragon sez: MONKS USE KAMAS. Just ask him.
Edited By Thaxll'ssyllia on 07/30/07 15:44
Well, high AB is very much necessary (due to all the Bard/Pally/RDD running around). I like the Risen Lord since he's also immune to skill drains. I also like the slashing and piercing damage immunities (so regen is that much more powerful) and if I ever wanted to kill a mage, I could shift to vampire. Remember guys, I don't want to get Dev Critted.
Permahaste is available and monk is not banned. If you think that Ranger/Shifter or dragon build of yours will work out, then please PM that build to me.
Dragons get damage reduction 40/+6 and a lot of more stuff, just read this. With a CON score of 32 and a class that gets Fortitude as main save in pre-epic your Fortitude while shifted is always high.
Well, as for the Ranger I also thought on a dragon build, you could fit Gæa's Protector (Ranger 23 / Druid 16 / Monk 1) by dropping Armor Skin for Great Wisdom to make up for the WIS penalty of your subrace and get dragon shape at level 39.
Hmmmmm, in order to make a Barbarian/Druid/Monk you need to change Alignment, is that possible? the build is made pretty similar to Gæa's Protector just changing Ranger for Barbarian, but I forgot to ask how much you can change alignment, that's quite important to make the level class spread correctly.
I'm supposing level 40 PvP, if you want playability this kind of dragons are quite hard to level up, you need to sacrifice BAB to get playability. _________________
Quote: Posted 12/19/06 19:54 (GMT) -- FinneousPJ
Thax the Shadow Dragon sez: MONKS USE KAMAS. Just ask him.
Alignment is not an issue on this server. So perhaps a ranger would be better than a barbarian for a dragon? I like a barbarian's DR, but the attack may be good enough.
Also, this is just something to throw out there. Some 1v1s allow dragons, while others do not. I already thought up a build for Barb/Druid/Shifter just case this becomes an issue. If this *is* an issue, you think Ranger/Druid/Shifter would be better? Tell me what you think.
I like the idea of using ranger b/c no one else is using it.
Bane of Enemies adds 2d6+5 (7-17) against Favored Enemies on a Ranger level 21, which is a heavy amount of damage to consider, Barbarian's Rage is also good, even though a level 15 Druid with Empowered Spell can self buff STR to cap for a short duration, but the problem about having short time to buff might come in, the Barbarian Rage is much more reliable at that and can be used while shifted, which adds AB and some damage as well as CON which improves HP and Fortitude, personally, I think Bane of Enemies is quite a bigger boost.
Barbarian's DR is quite low IMO, and as said, dragons get DR 40/+6 which owns on low magical servers, disregard the Barbarian DR, it's not a considerable addition here. You could use it and easily take EDR as well, but you won't get to fit enough WIS for dragon shape with it, so that's a complete different build.
Some disallow dragons, smart guys, well that's a bugger...
I don't know much about shifter's shifts, in fact, I prefer Druid's Elder Elementals than all the other melee shifts except dragon, the tricky part is that the most powerful third class on a shifter is and will always be Monk, with a high WIS score Monk AC bonus can net over +20 AC, since a dragon already need 30 WIS which is +15, shifter's epic shifts also require high WIS, plus the Monk APR and Flurry of Blows makes that a shifter with monk levels beat any shifter without monk levels, but either Barbarian/Druid/Shifter or Ranger/Druid/Shifter have no space for Monk, what I'd do is probably a Barbarian 19 / Druid 20 / Monk 1 with Terrifying Rage and Elder Elemental shifts, but that's just me, not everybody agrees that the elder elementals are better, in fact, compared to a full shifter's shift arsenal they really don't, but the difference between having Monk and not having Monk on your shifter is quite big, the powerful Owl's Insight is useless on battle without Monk levels as well. _________________
Quote: Posted 12/19/06 19:54 (GMT) -- FinneousPJ
Thax the Shadow Dragon sez: MONKS USE KAMAS. Just ask him.
Edited By Thaxll'ssyllia on 07/31/07 03:21
oops, had a post here and totaly forgot about the troll part. have to re-do the build.
Edited By Bromium on 07/31/07 16:08
you cheater, you edited an hour later using the mod mojo, you should not misuse its power like that.
I though I'd find a lot of shifter variants when I noticed you posted here, since I only cover the Druids, but it was a false alarm. Can't you delete posts as a moderator instead? there is a "Delete post" option when I modify my own posts and I'm not even a mod. _________________
Quote: Posted 12/19/06 19:54 (GMT) -- FinneousPJ
Thax the Shadow Dragon sez: MONKS USE KAMAS. Just ask him.
Edited By Thaxll'ssyllia on 07/31/07 18:36
well I had a nice Monk Iron Golem build up, but then the -2 wisdom from the skin... oh wait... On second thought... I think the Wisdom modifier for that skin is applied AFTER character creation and leveling. So... a Human character with Starting 16 Wisdom would not get the -2 applied to it right away. This is important when trying to qualify for certain feats like Construct shape. Troll is a "skin" applied at login time. It's not used for meeting feat requirements right?
The skin can only be chosen at level 1. After you ding for the first time, you can't change your skin. So you start as a level one, assign skill points, and pick your first level feats at that time.
Also, don't forget that a troll gets Disarm.
Edit: You are classified by your original race for any feats and such.
Edited By SubZero7 on 07/31/07 20:31
Huh, I'm just no good to make up the skin arrangements, I thought the penalty would apply since character creation... well since it doesn't it actually makes it easier.
What's wrong with the Iron Golem? I think it is a bit better than the elemental shifts since it gets more immunities, the 27 WIS can be achieved even with a penalty that's for sure too, just a mere tweak to the feats and done.
Since you get Disarm I suppose you want to get Improved Disarm, nobody wants to get those attack of opportunities, but that's no problem at all, just take it pre-epic, as a shifter you don't need STR, CON or DEX, so you can pump up WIS and INT, so the INT requirement is easily met. _________________
Quote: Posted 12/19/06 19:54 (GMT) -- FinneousPJ
Thax the Shadow Dragon sez: MONKS USE KAMAS. Just ask him.
Thaxll'ssyllia, I sent a PM to you with *all* the specifics you'll need for what I'd like for it to do. Remember, I don't care about playability much since I have friends who'll help me out for a few levels to leech off them as I buy heals and pots for them in exchange.
Why pick a fancy new subrace and then be a shifter that, you know, shifts and thus doesn't use the subrace? _________________ " -- They give birth astride of a grave, the light gleams an instant, then it's night once more."
- Pozzo in Waiting for Godot by Samuel Beckett
free extra +5 regen
Huh, I'm just no good to make up the skin arrangements, I thought the penalty would apply since character creation... well since it doesn't it actually makes it easier.
What's wrong with the Iron Golem? I think it is a bit better than the elemental shifts since it gets more immunities, the 27 WIS can be achieved even with a penalty that's for sure too, just a mere tweak to the feats and done.
Since you get Disarm I suppose you want to get Improved Disarm, nobody wants to get those attack of opportunities, but that's no problem at all, just take it pre-epic, as a shifter you don't need STR, CON or DEX, so you can pump up WIS and INT, so the INT requirement is easily met.
You can't use the skin Disarm as a pre-req for Improved Disarm.
Think of it as equipping a Whip and then trying to get Improved Disarm.
At first I thought the -2 Wis penalty would count against the build layout in terms of qualifying for Construct Shape. But it doesn't.
so ya, a nice Monk Druid Shifter Construct. Heavy on the Monk, lite on the shifter. Would be pretty good.
Yes, it is on top of the prior bonuses/penalties.