I am looking for some assistance in tweaking this build to get the most out of it. I realize strength based rangers are "better" from a power standpoint; but that isn't what this is about This is about building a classic Ranger type woodland scout. Equally adept with bow or blade and sneaky enough to scare assassins
I am going for a Party based scout/ranger who can deal with traps and locks en route to his target; and deal decent ranged or close in damage as a support archer or fighter. Still survivable solo is a must as well; hence the stealth focus. if I don't have a party I can always use traps and summons to distract targets enough to hopefully take them out quick. The Epic Dodge and HiPS will aid a lot there too.
Two of my FEs are already picked; because they are the main threat at lower levels and also crit immune; but the rest I would pick as I determine what is needed most... Oh, and you'll notice Blinding Speed is in there at level 36. there are no perma anything items on this world; it is very low magic. that 10 round boost will be huge for this PC
Yes, changing race would help and avoid the penalty; but it has to be an Elf. If you have suggestions on better class spread or mix I am more than happy to consider them (the PW is low XP gain already; I would prefer no penalty if I could help it )
So; please suggest away; hopefully you can come up with a better way to reach my goal
The Moonshae Isles - Forgotten Realms A Role Play, Low Magic world
Edited By 4SakN on 07/31/07 15:52
My main suggestion would be to do either Rogue 13/SD 1 or Rogue 10/SD 5 to get ED instead of Rogue 4/SD 10. Gets you more skillpoints, more sneak damage and more frequent UMD dumps. I would also lower Dex to 16 so you can put some points into Con - it's awfully low for a melee build. I would drop blinding speed (with UMD, you can use scrolls for haste if there are no perma-haste items) and ESF: MS for 2 more Great Dex feats to keep final dex the same. I would probably drop ESF: hide for Armor Skin (with high AC and ED he won't be hit at all, and his Hide and MS skills are already high thanks to Dex and Ranger spells/bonuses). With more Rogue levels, you might also be able to drop Int to 14 to boost Con or Str as well. You don't really need the points in Discipline since he is likely to have AC higher than 63, making any hit automatically beat his discipline roll.
My main suggestion would be to do either Rogue 13/SD 1 or Rogue 10/SD 5 to get ED instead of Rogue 4/SD 10. Gets you more skillpoints, more sneak damage and more frequent UMD dumps.
There are unfortunately two issues with this. First, either way would remove Slippery mind. his save is low enough that SM will be a necessity (And he will probably still fail quite a few ). The other issue is I have to take a minimum of 5 levels in the prestige class to meet the World requirements, so I cannot go 1 SD. I forgot to mention that though, sorry for that. Perhaps Rogue 13/SD 5 so I could get both; but this would drop me to Ranger 23. Hmmm, things to play with there; thanks for the ideas
Quote: I would also lower Dex to 16 so you can put some points into Con - it's awfully low for a melee build.
This is a definite possibility, as he can certainly use the help in HP. the problem is where to get the extra dex from:
Quote: I would drop blinding speed (with UMD, you can use scrolls for haste if there are no perma-haste items) and ESF: MS for 2 more Great Dex feats to keep final dex the same.
Blinding speed is a Ranger bonus feat; and unfortunately they don't get Great Dex so I can't do that. I could drop both ESFs fro two great dex feats but that defeats the purpose of being a stealth master I would have to think about that one. It is a definite possibility though.
Also something to note is he does not have UMD currently. The server is very low magic as I said; spawns will not even drop +1 items before level 10 CR. UMD may be of some small use; but I figured the trap skills would be more useful in the long run since I could not count on finding scrolls. I may be able to tweak in 10-15 points though for the scrolls I do find.
Quote: You don't really need the points in Discipline since he is likely to have AC higher than 63, making any hit automatically beat his discipline roll.
TM
Very true if it were a high magic world where +5 gear is readily available, but as I said the world is Low magic, so I doubt his AC will ever pass 40ish. +3 is the highest I'll ever see on the Server, and I doubt I'll find more than 1 of those.
All excellent food for thought thank you! I need ot head back to the CBC, anyone else have ideas? _________________ -4SakN "never kiss a girl whose brothers have knife scars." "never gamble without knowing a back way out." -Robert Jordan
Edited By 4SakN on 07/31/07 17:10
Quote: Posted 07/31/07 17:01 (GMT) -- 4SakN There are unfortunately two issues with this. First, either way would remove Slippery mind. his save is low enough that SM will be a necessity (And he will probably still fail quite a few ).
Even with SM, he will fail most of them - that's why I didn't consider it important. If you are in a party, try to have someone cast Protection vs. Alignment or Clarity on you after rest, or carry potions of Clarity. Since you already said it's low magic, I presume mind-immunity items are out?
Quote: Blinding speed is a Ranger bonus feat; and unfortunately they don't get Great Dex so I can't do that.
Sure you can - just move the second EWF to the ranger bonus feat, and take Great Dex on teh general feat. It does mean you don't get both EWF's on one level, but you have to give up something...
Quote: I could drop both ESFs fro two great dex feats but that defeats the purpose of being a stealth master I would have to think about that one. It is a definite possibility though.
It looks to me that with a 30 Dex, Ranger bonuses and spells, and a 43 in both skills already that he shouldn't be getting spotted much already. Especially in low magic where items with Spot or Listen bonuses will be rare.
Quote: Also something to note is he does not have UMD currently. The server is very low magic as I said; spawns will not even drop +1 items before level 10 CR. UMD may be of some small use; but I figured the trap skills would be more useful in the long run since I could not count on finding scrolls. I may be able to tweak in 10-15 points though for the scrolls I do find.
Well, you know the environment better than I do. If he's in a party with a wizard who can craft wands, it may still be worth some points. Wands with useful buffs would help a lot (Imp. Invis, Invis, Clarity, Haste, etc.).
Quote: Very true if it were a high magic world where +5 gear is readily available, but as I said the world is Low magic, so I doubt his AC will ever pass 40ish. +3 is the highest I'll ever see on the Server, and I doubt I'll find more than 1 of those.
Well, if you expect his AC to be that low, maybe drop Epic Dodge altogether - that frees up several feats for Crippling Strike, Slippery Mind, etc. Epic Dodge is great when you need a 19 or 20 to hit, but fairly useless if you are getting hit on a 10 or less....
TM
Edited By Tattoed Monk on 07/31/07 18:00
Good points again, thanks! though I am not sure I understand your last one. The lower AC he would have would still be considered "good" as a 63 would on a higher magic server; so he will still have about the same chances of getting hit, yes?
I would love to see him with AC in the 50s or higher; I just don't think the gear will be available for it _________________ -4SakN "never kiss a girl whose brothers have knife scars." "never gamble without knowing a back way out." -Robert Jordan
No, high magic favors defense, low magic favors offense. The reason is that you can add the magic level to your AC 5 times (natural, armor, shield, deflection, dodge), but only once to your AB.
So if your naked AC is 30, and the magic level is +5, you get say +5 from medium armor, +3 from a tower shield, +4 from perma-haste and 5*5 from magic enhancements = +25, for a total of 67 or so. A fighter's AB may be 43 with a mundane weapon, so if he gets +5 that means his AB is 48, and he needs a 19 or more to hit (I have ignored ability buffs here, but let's assume that you can buff your Dex the same amount as he can buff Str and they wash).
Now in a +3 world, you lose 5 * 2 and 4 if there's no perma-haste, and your AC drops to 53. The fighter only loses 2, so his AB is 46, and he now only needs a 7 to hit you.
In a no-magic world, your AC is 30 + 5 + 3 = 38, and the fighter's AB is 43, so he hits you on anything but a 1. In fact, even on his second attack of the round, he still hits you on anything but a 1.
By the way, this is why mages are so useful to a party in low-magic settings - a mage can guarantee you a +5 weapon with GMW, +1 to 4 armor types with Mage Armor (or +5 to AC from a Cleric with magic Vestment), some more from Shield, natural armor from Shadow Shield, elemental damage from Flame Weapon, elemental resistance, etc. In low magic settings, a fighter who has been thoroughly buffed by a cleric or mage will have a huge advantage over one who hasn't. Once the magic level hits +5 or higher, that advantage is much smaller and the mages just concentrate on offensive spells instead of buffing their fighters.
TM
Never looked at it that way Thanks for the lesson; I think I'll play a druid! _________________ -4SakN "never kiss a girl whose brothers have knife scars." "never gamble without knowing a back way out." -Robert Jordan
Heh, a druid, well those are cool for low magic, buffed shifters have about the same stats no matter the environment so they rock on the low ones.
About the XP penalty, well, why are you taking Rogue to start with? just 4 levels? Shadowdancer covers Uncanny and Epic Dodge pre-requisites, so you can take Assassin for the little sneak and the skills without XP penalty, it might be less playable early on, but you can take Assassin at level 6, so it's not that bad. _________________
Quote: Posted 12/19/06 19:54 (GMT) -- FinneousPJ
Thax the Shadow Dragon sez: MONKS USE KAMAS. Just ask him.
Aah, the rogue was just for the skills yeah. I needed the big bump in skill points to get the needed ones; as well as the class skills _________________ -4SakN "never kiss a girl whose brothers have knife scars." "never gamble without knowing a back way out." -Robert Jordan
Assassin gets the needed class skills, even though Shadowdancer doesn't, come on, you don't really need to take Rogue levels to get the skillpoints. _________________
Quote: Posted 12/19/06 19:54 (GMT) -- FinneousPJ
Thax the Shadow Dragon sez: MONKS USE KAMAS. Just ask him.
Adding SD or Rogue lvls to a Ranger build is the right thing to do to fill the gaps in the Ranger class-feat and skillset. I also second the advice given above by several posters.
I know you ask for a "true" Ranger, but in case you're not familiar with the Ultimate Dex "Ranger" by Mithdradates, you should take a look at it just to see a completely different approach to the kind of character you want to play. _________________ The curve is more powerful than the sword -- BG courtesan
This is about building a classic Ranger type woodland scout. Equally adept with bow or blade and sneaky enough to scare assassins 
). The other issue is I have to take a minimum of 5 levels in the prestige class to meet the World requirements, so I cannot go 1 SD. I forgot to mention that though, sorry for that. Perhaps Rogue 13/SD 5 so I could get both; but this would drop me to Ranger 23. Hmmm, things to play with there; thanks for the ideas 
I would have to think about that one. It is a definite possibility though.
