The topic references the build, not me personally.
OK,
so for the same world I originally was asking for help on a Ranger a couple threads ago; I decided to go with a wizard instead. Due to the very low level of magic; I am thinking a spellsword with enough umph to beat the enemy with either spells or blade. I have come up with a general idea; and I would appreciate any help you can give me in tweaking him.
He is built more for RP than powerbuilt (reference no Stat below 10) but I see no reason I can't tweak for the most power possible within role play right?
Please bear in mind the Following:
-Very Low Magic World. +2 weapons/Armor will probably be the norm; and then only at higher levels.
-Little to no immunity items. I have seen a bone ring; so a few Immunities (IE Level Drain) do exist; but they are exceedingly rare.
-No Perm effect items at all. no perma haste etc.
Here is my Idea of the Marshall of the Wizarding forces; please tear him apart and help me build a better General.
01: Illusionist(1): Toughness, Combat Casting, {Scribe Scroll} 02: Fighter(1): Weapon Focus: Greatsword 03: Illusionist(2): Spell Focus: Necromancy 04: Fighter(2): INT+1, Expertise, (INT=17) 05: Illusionist(3) 06: Illusionist(4): Extend Spell 07: Illusionist(5): Still Spell 08: Fighter(3): INT+1, (INT=18) 09: Fighter(4): Empower Spell, Weapon Specialization: Greatsword 10: Illusionist(6) 11: Illusionist(7) 12: Illusionist(8): INT+1, Greater Spell Focus: Necromancy, (INT=19) 13: Champion of Torm(1) 14: Champion of Torm(2): Improved Expertise 15: Illusionist(9): Spell Penetration 16: Illusionist(10): INT+1, Craft Wand, (INT=20) 17: Champion of Torm(3): {Smite Evil} 18: Champion of Torm(4): Greater Spell Penetration, Disarm 19: Champion of Torm(5) 20: Champion of Torm(6): INT+1, Improved Disarm, (INT=21) 21: Champion of Torm(7): Epic Weapon Focus: Greatsword 22: Illusionist(11) 23: Illusionist(12) 24: Champion of Torm(8): INT+1, Epic Weapon Specialization: Greatsword, Improved Combat Casting, (INT=22) 25: Illusionist(13) 26: Illusionist(14) 27: Illusionist(15): Great Intelligence I, Epic Spell Penetration, (INT=23) 28: Illusionist(16): INT+1, (INT=24) 29: Illusionist(17) 30: Champion of Torm(9): Automatic Still spell I 31: Illusionist(18) 32: Illusionist(19): INT+1, (INT=25) 33: Illusionist(20): Automatic Still spell II, Automatic Still spell III 34: Illusionist(21) 35: Illusionist(22) 36: Illusionist(23): INT+1, Epic Spell Focus: Necromancy, Epic Spell: Epic Mage Armor, (INT=26) 37: Illusionist(24) 38: Illusionist(25) 39: Champion of Torm(10): Great Intelligence II, Armor Skin, (INT=27) 40: Illusionist(26): INT+1, Epic Spell: Epic Warding, (INT=28)
A couple points to help before the questions come up:
1. The Level split from 1-4 is needed to meet world requirements. You must advance two levels in a class before going beyond 2 in another. I could do 1-2 wizard, 3-4 Fighter if it helps; but I gotta be 2/2 by level 4.
2. I chose Necromancy for focus for RP reasons. I can change it if something would be better, but I felt that the Champion of the goddess of Magic would want to learn to dispatch his enemies in the quickest; kindest way possible rather than prolong the pain. FoD/Wail are far faster and more "Humane" than say Weird etc Also; a Mage who's focus is commanding forces in battle would have to be at least slightly intrigued by death...
3. I chose to stop at 15 BaB pre-Epic in order to get the extra Wizard feat in for Craft Wand. It would be quite useful on a battlefield; as well as handing out tokens to worthy aides and such. I can go to BaB 16 and lose it if you feel it would be better getting the AB and extra attack than craft wand.
4. The Non-com feats are there for RP purposes. Being a commander of forces he would have to be able to persuade; intimidate or Bluff his friends or enemies. They are not "must have" but I would prefer keeping at least one.
5. He focuses on the Warblade for effect and presence on the battlefield, but he will be carrying a longsword and tower shield for those times they become necessary. Just in case you were curious
6. CoT was for the saves primarily of course. He can save against spells quite well alone; but I felt it would be pretty foolish for Mystra's General to collapse to a single blow from the opposing Army (Dev Crit) so I wanted his save as high as I can.
thanks for looking, and thanks in advance for any suggestions you have! _________________ -4SakN "never kiss a girl whose brothers have knife scars." "never gamble without knowing a back way out." -Robert Jordan
Edited By 4SakN on 08/01/07 19:46
Nice. Reminds me of my own build, Eldritch Axeman (FTR 4 / COT 10 / Wizard 26) _________________ " -- They give birth astride of a grave, the light gleams an instant, then it's night once more."
- Pozzo in Waiting for Godot by Samuel Beckett
Thanks! Yours was actually the inspiration for me Finneous; but I wanted a human instead of a Dwarf
Any suggestions? _________________ -4SakN
The Moonshae Isles - Forgotten Realms A Role Play, Low Magic world
Edited By 4SakN on 08/01/07 22:32
If you want the spell power of a Wizard (which is very effective in low-magic settings), then something along these lines is a good idea.
If you want to focus on melee, I would say that Cleric offers better buffs and protections, plus better BAB. Any of the many Cleric/fighter/X combos (where X could be Paladin, CoT, Monk, Rogue, etc.) would be very powerful in a low-magic world.
And if you are in a party situation, my Life of the Party build (Cleric 23/Bard 17) would be extremely useful in a low-magic setting. You could leave Wis at 20 and pump Str a bit to make her more effective in combat if you want. Click Here
TM
OK, well after playing around with him a bit I decided to tweak the epic levels a bit. this nets me Auto still spell and both epic spells faster; at the cost of a slightly later EWS.
I figure by level 24 I will be able to deal reasonably good damage with buffs anyway; so the EWS was more icing than a must. The Auto still feats and epic spells are far more critical to epic survivability.
So; the new Epic life is as follows:
21: Illusionist(11): Epic Weapon Focus: Greatsword 22: Illusionist(12) 23: Illusionist(13) 24: Illusionist(14): INT+1, Improved Combat Casting, (INT=22) 25: Illusionist(15): Great Intelligence I, (INT=23) 26: Illusionist(16) 27: Illusionist(17): Automatic Still spell I 28: Champion of Torm(7): INT+1, (INT=24) 29: Illusionist(18) 30: Champion of Torm(8): Automatic Still spell II, Automatic Still spell III 31: Illusionist(19) 32: Illusionist(20): INT+1, Epic Spell Focus: Necromancy, (INT=25) 33: Champion of Torm(9): Epic Weapon Specialization: Greatsword 34: Illusionist(21) 35: Illusionist(22) 36: Illusionist(23): INT+1, Epic Spell: Epic Mage Armor, Epic Spell: Epic Warding, (INT=26) 37: Illusionist(24) 38: Illusionist(25) 39: Champion of Torm(10): Great Intelligence II, Armor Skin, (INT=27) 40: Illusionist(26): INT+1, Epic Spell Penetration, (INT=28)
Still open to any suggestions if anyone sees anything that may help Thanks again!
Oh, and P.S. : I think I have decided on a different name as well; Either Mystra's Champion or possibly Mystra's Blade. The general part still applies; I am just no so sold on it _________________ -4SakN
The Moonshae Isles - Forgotten Realms A Role Play, Low Magic world
If you want the spell power of a Wizard (which is very effective in low-magic settings), then something along these lines is a good idea.
If you want to focus on melee, I would say that Cleric offers better buffs and protections, plus better BAB. Any of the many Cleric/fighter/X combos (where X could be Paladin, CoT, Monk, Rogue, etc.) would be very powerful in a low-magic world.
And if you are in a party situation, my Life of the Party build (Cleric 23/Bard 17) would be extremely useful in a low-magic setting. You could leave Wis at 20 and pump Str a bit to make her more effective in combat if you want. Click Here
TM
Aah, I posted as you were so I missed this; but thanks for the info monk!
I am going for the spell power along with reasonable melee presence yes. Due to the world setting however; I like the idea of a wizard better than a cleric. It is the Moonshae Isles if you know anything of them?
Clerics are heavily frowned on by the People of the isles due to their long-standing faith in the goddess and Druidism. Wizards aren't well liked either; but they are tolerated; and actually accepted in certain places.
But thanks for the link, an interesting build I may try out on a different server _________________ -4SakN
The Moonshae Isles - Forgotten Realms A Role Play, Low Magic world
Wee, as no other posts i am assuming no one sees any ways to improve him?
I am gonna go get playing him then, thanks all _________________ -4SakN
The Moonshae Isles - Forgotten Realms A Role Play, Low Magic world
Quote: Posted 08/03/07 13:07 (GMT) -- 4SakN
Wee, as no other posts i am assuming no one sees any ways to improve him?
I don't really understand your motives. What are you trying to do? My build had more AB and better DCs. I could suggest doing it like my build, but surely you have some reason for not doing that? _________________ " -- They give birth astride of a grave, the light gleams an instant, then it's night once more."
- Pozzo in Waiting for Godot by Samuel Beckett
Edited By FinneousPJ on 08/03/07 16:41
For starters; that was supposed to be Well; not Wee
This essentially is your build as I said; I was just looking to make sure I hadn't missed anything vital. I took your build; made it human and adjusted the stats to be roleplayable. Everything else is just feat preference. I wanted the extra wizard feat pre-epic so I sacrificed an attack/round and 1 ab for it. that was one of my questions up top; whether that was really advisable? (I need the craft wand feat; but maybe a better way to do it? I dunno)
I also wanted disarm/Imp disarm since I was using a large weapon already; so I took that in place of knockdown on yours. I figure the bigby's line gives him a more powerful knockdown that the feat does anyway.
Your AB is only 2 higher than mine other than your strength (1 pre-epic and 1 Epic Prowess). But your build drops wisdom, dex and cha all to minimum. I don't want an 8 wisdom; makes no sense on a "general" style PC; and the same for Cha. I could drop the dex and add 2 to strength to raise my AB 1; as he can buff Dex anyway to gain the +2 AC it currently brings. Would that be smart?
My Motive is to make the build you created as a dwarf into an RP'able human instead _________________ -4SakN
The Moonshae Isles - Forgotten Realms A Role Play, Low Magic world
Edited By 4SakN on 08/03/07 17:13
Oh. It's hard to comment on RP builds because only you know what you want to RP and how. _________________ " -- They give birth astride of a grave, the light gleams an instant, then it's night once more."
- Pozzo in Waiting for Godot by Samuel Beckett
Quote: Wee, as no other posts i am assuming no one sees any ways to improve him?
You should never assume such things 4SakN, perhaps we were just not interested in reading all the stuff, or we're just mean and don't like to help. You're not an inexperienced builder either that would die without help, I'm sure your build would be good without watching it...
Now, after really looking at the build, I actually don't like it... the AB is low, and the INT/caster level is regular, with lowish DCs... I would change the build to focus more on a buffer melee (more BAB and STR, less caster levels and INT) or on a caster (for that I might change the classes), but I'm simply a powerbuilder, if this is an RP build don't listen to me, like Finn said, it's hard ot comment on an RP build, most of the time to strengthen a build you need to change that RP part or lose it.
Of course your buffed AB is good enough to melee PvM, and your spells will kill enemies that's for sure, but it just doesn't convinces me, a melee buffer will beat you in melee and a heavy caster will beat you in spells for sure... _________________
Quote: Posted 12/19/06 19:54 (GMT) -- FinneousPJ
Thax the Shadow Dragon sez: MONKS USE KAMAS. Just ask him.
Quote: Wee, as no other posts i am assuming no one sees any ways to improve him?
You should never assume such things 4SakN, perhaps we were just not interested in reading all the stuff, or we're just mean and don't like to help. You're not an inexperienced builder either that would die without help, I'm sure your build would be good without watching it...
Actually I wasn't assuming anything. that was just a shameless plug to bump my thread so I could generate interest
Quote: Now, after really looking at the build, I actually don't like it... the AB is low, and the INT/caster level is regular, with lowish DCs... I would change the build to focus more on a buffer melee (more BAB and STR, less caster levels and INT) or on a caster (for that I might change the classes), but I'm simply a powerbuilder, if this is an RP build don't listen to me, like Finn said, it's hard ot comment on an RP build, most of the time to strengthen a build you need to change that RP part or lose it.
Of course your buffed AB is good enough to melee PvM, and your spells will kill enemies that's for sure, but it just doesn't convinces me, a melee buffer will beat you in melee and a heavy caster will beat you in spells for sure...
That what I need; thanks. Perhaps back to the drawing board then to tweak a bit.
EDIT: Oh, and this build is for PVM mainly; very little PvP is likely. _________________ -4SakN
The Moonshae Isles - Forgotten Realms A Role Play, Low Magic world
Edited By 4SakN on 08/03/07 19:49
Quote: Actually I wasn't assuming anything. that was just a shameless plug to bump my thread so I could generate interest
Heck, it worked, I had been lazy to read this thread, but then "no one sees any ways to improve him?" sounds like a challenge to the powerbuilder in me.
Quote: That what I need; thanks. Perhaps back to the drawing board then to tweak a bit.
You really needed me telling you that? I think anybody can say an AB of 30 and max DC of 34 on only one school are low. My critic wasn't really very constructive... _________________
Quote: Posted 12/19/06 19:54 (GMT) -- FinneousPJ
Thax the Shadow Dragon sez: MONKS USE KAMAS. Just ask him.
Yep it helped. When I build something I usually get excited over the idea of it (which is why I built it to start with) and so I tend to overlook shortfalls. I need others to slap me and say "Hello! It sucks!" _________________ -4SakN
The Moonshae Isles - Forgotten Realms A Role Play, Low Magic world
well, it's not really about overlooking shortfalls, a build can be strong without a perfect feat selection, just take a moment to check all your ending stats after building, I understand your point, when I make a build I also overlook its weaknesses and normally think it's so cool, but then it happens it isn't that cool...
Not everyone around is a heartless son of a... to say a build sucks, nobody actually says such hard comments because they are mean (even if they were to think them), there's this "hidden policy" of saying what you can to improve a build, but don't say it's crap even if it is, if you can't say something good then don't say anything I guess.
Heh, curious, I remember once a guy got angry when we criticized his build, it was strange really, but the guy felt offended somehow that we posted how to improve it, it wasn't a hard critic, the build didn't sucked or anything, we just posted a few changes on feat selection and starting abilities or the like, like we always do (I don't remember that much of specifics), normally people are thankful to get their builds improved, I am, but I couldn't believe the guy, he left the guild just for that. _________________
Quote: Posted 12/19/06 19:54 (GMT) -- FinneousPJ
Thax the Shadow Dragon sez: MONKS USE KAMAS. Just ask him.
Edited By Thaxll'ssyllia on 08/04/07 04:55
That was a joke thax I didn't really expect anyone to say "It Sucks!"
But I do thank you for the info and the advice; both always help from you all. Even if I chose not to use it; I know what I am overlooking rather than getting caught blind _________________ -4SakN
The Moonshae Isles - Forgotten Realms A Role Play, Low Magic world
