I was wondering what you all thought was the best class combo to kill a mage in PvP, that isnt.. well a class with magic. I will have Druid being an exception because they can be shifter, which I heard Rakasha had good spell risistence.
But is there something better that could help me. Lets say a monk with spell risistence. The server I play on doesnt have any rules against certain feats, so that is not much of an issue. I know the character IS kinda vague, but I do not know how to narrow it down anymore.
Thank you, hope there is something you can find for me
A smiter would be nice, or my personal favorite, a Kobold. But it really depends on your world. Are spells changed? is True Seeing enabled?
No, nothing is changed.
If your concern is a character that can take out a mage, and it doesn't matter if you can do anything else, then a high SR Monk is probably the way to go. _________________ It's rogue, dammit, ROGUE!!!
How much SP does a Rakasha have?
Opoos nevermind just realized what the Rakasha spell resistances is.
I'll go with the Monk SR with some other things to make it somewhat better, but thank you.
Hard stuff, a mage with Epic Warding can be extremely hard to kill, hence why mages are the best for PvP.
An SR monk can be pretty useless man, the caster can simply cast Mestil's Acid Sheath and then you can't hit him or do anything, remember casters have Familiars and summons, they're not dead against SR.
Sneakers work, unless he's a mage with Pale Master, I think that makes him immune to sneaks.
Ranged works, to a certain degree, Arcane Archers hit and hit hard, that kills mages for certain, pretty fast and all, but Epic Warding is always in the way, escape until it fades or something...
Devastating Critical is the way meleers kill mages, but I think an Arcane Archer with Devastating Critical is even better. _________________
Quote: Posted 12/19/06 19:54 (GMT) -- FinneousPJ
Thax the Shadow Dragon sez: MONKS USE KAMAS. Just ask him.
Well, an SR monk perhaps -- depends on AB and damage of course; then again, dem shields don't last forever OR, can always try a monk with speed and dev.crit
Of course, if that mage has Pale Master, immune not only to sneak, but also crits (so no dev.crit) --in which case, high paladin comes to mind (with high saves, holy sword (dispels magic oh hit, with a pretty nice chance of dispelling everything on one hit and which itself cannot be dispelled -- mages ain't so tough when they're dispelled; but if that mage isn't evil, will want not a smiting paladin but one who can melee (i.e., natural AB and damage, in case mage sees you coming and has a chance to fire off mord's (but not/can't take away yer holy sword (and can't exactly fire off anything anyway once you get 'em on their back - can always try to sneak via umd/imrp.invis, which only rangers and clerics can purge (not mages imo, not even w. mord's
Of course, could always try to find (although very rare) a mord's scroll yourself, and if mage has less than 25 levels, said mage is vulnerable not only to mord's, but also to dispel; another option, as also noted (and a good one me thinks so, too), is an archer w. high AB and either stealth or dev.crit; shooting from a safe distance - also good _________________ "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good [people] to do nothing" -- Edmund Burke, Philosopher and Politician (1729-1797)
Edited By TyrTemplar on 08/20/07 04:29
So what do you think about a stealth archer, with dev crit?
Quote: Posted 08/20/07 04:02 (GMT) -- TyrTemplar ...then again, dem shields don't last forever
They can last a pretty long time, especially if you're dealing with a lot of Sorc levels and Extend Spell.
Quote: Posted 08/20/07 04:02 (GMT) -- TyrTemplar can always try to sneak via umd/imrp.invis, which only rangers and clerics can purge (not mages imo, not even w. mord's
Improved Invisibility can be Morded.
Shields, yes: 1 round/level, unless extended (or recast, as you say; but again, can't cast if on their backs -- besides, and regardless, if doing more damage to them on hit than what their shield does back to you (and say, get some acid resistance or something ... not an issue, so long as when you hit, you're dealing the damage (and reason why monks sometimes work, sometimes don't--all that apr/flurry and little damage usually means for them suicide, but not a str.based warrior). Of course, if said mage is evil, well, already talked about the paladin + smite (and pretty nice too are str. pallys when come with bane, too Otherwise, and back to SR monks, dunno, with that high speed, SR and pretty much immune otherwise to everything mages do (esp. now since they finally got around to actually fixing monk), well, yeah, shields are an issue, but all how you play it, right?
As to mord's and impr.invis., no, it does not, Merlin. Mords dispels ghostly and etheral, but not impr.invis; impr.invis. can be purged (by rangers, clerics), however. (But it's not in the mord's script, and therefore not breachable), unless that's changed recently, but not according to the Wiki:
Quote: The following magical defense spells are not in the script and therefore are not breachable: barkskin, clarity, death ward, displacement, entropic shield, etherealness, freedom of movement, haste, improved invisibility, invisibility, invisibility sphere, magic circle against alignment, mass haste, protection from alignment, and undeath's eternal foe.
As to a dev.crit/stealth archer, could work -- as in, Bard/AA/RDD -- of course, if that mage has PM as noted, is immune to crits (and/or if a sorcerer with BG, could have a high fort so as to withstand a dev.crit) -- definitely worth a shot, I think so; although, on the "cautionary" note, careful of said archer's saves, though. Then again, one well placed shot, if said mage ain't immune, then all you need is one ... _________________ "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good [people] to do nothing" -- Edmund Burke, Philosopher and Politician (1729-1797)
Edited By TyrTemplar on 08/20/07 14:21
The best way to kill a mage is with another mage. The trick is to be the first one to get your Time stop off to cast Mord's Disjunction followed by a Bigby's spell wins. Not very exciting, but it's reality. Almost any non-mage build is in trouble against a prepared Exalted Sorc or similar. Smite only works if they are evil, stealth only works if they haven't cast True Seeing on rest, melee only works if they don't cast Mestil's, melee or ranged don't work once they cast Epic Warding. That leaves spells.
The other thing that can work is a cleric - Harm, followed by any Cause Wounds spell will take them out in 1 round, or Implosion, as long as they don't have a spell shield up (and of course if they haven't used Bigby's or Time Stop on you first).
TM
Edited By Tattoed Monk on 08/20/07 14:21
Well if I become a Rakasha, you have to take druid lvls so you can be a shifter. Druids know the spell Harm. I think I can cast druid spells while im shifted but not sure can someone check that for me?
Also they couldn't cast bigby's han because they are immune to all spells, but level 9 spells.
Edited By Monk9292 on 08/20/07 14:33
Quote: Posted 08/20/07 14:31 (GMT) -- Monk9292
Well if I become a Rakasha, you have to take druid lvls so you can be a shifter. Druids know the spell Harm. I think I can cast druid spells while im shifted but not sure can someone check that for me?
You can't _________________ " -- They give birth astride of a grave, the light gleams an instant, then it's night once more."
- Pozzo in Waiting for Godot by Samuel Beckett
FinneousPJ I noticed that you have a few Rakshasa builds. Which one do YOU prefer out of them?
Well, can't answer for Finn re: his fave Rak (he does have a few ), but just a clarity point re: true seeing -- while it allows one to spot the hidden in general, true seeing does not help a mage vs. impr.invis; once again, only purge invis. does, which mages don't have (but clerics and rangers do), and in this way mages are sneakable and knockable ) Otherwise, yeah, TM: I agree that the best mage killer, generally speaking, is usually another mage w. say improved initiative or something (but our OP didn't want to go that route ...
Anyway, and since Monk, our OP, now be looking at raks, heh heh: yeah, they're a pain for casters, this is true; and in the wise words of Sir Kail (in respect of Finn's Generic Rak build),
... always fun to spam Icestorms in Rakshasa form while spells fizzle on you and damage gets soaked by DR (BTW Greater Stoneskin and Premonition will be better than the Rakshasa natural DR) ...
* EDIT: and yeah, Mantis -- Paladins and that Holy Sword -- it really does work, folks! _________________ "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good [people] to do nothing" -- Edmund Burke, Philosopher and Politician (1729-1797)
Edited By TyrTemplar on 08/20/07 17:37
If spells aren't edited, make a Paladin with Holy Sword. Combine with Palemaster for good AC (to resist grasping hand), and be STR based to resist forceful hands.
Holy Sword + good crits + divine might = gg.
(I'm assuming Holy Sword is, in fact, unedited).
Quote: Posted 08/20/07 14:42 (GMT) -- Monk9292
FinneousPJ I noticed that you have a few Rakshasa builds. Which one do YOU prefer out of them?
Oh, I can't say. Depends on the environment? _________________ " -- They give birth astride of a grave, the light gleams an instant, then it's night once more."
- Pozzo in Waiting for Godot by Samuel Beckett
Smites don't really work in PvP, they would just choose neutral alignment.
Epic Warding cannot be dispelled, not even with Holy Sword or Mords, that's a BIG issue.
Quote: -- Tatooed Monk The best way to kill a mage is with another mage. The trick is to be the first one to get your Time stop off to cast Mord's Disjunction followed by a Bigby's spell wins. Not very exciting, but it's reality.
Just like TM said.
If you're a ranged he will suppose your Fort is low, you'll die with necromancy spells. If you're a melee magical shields will keep you at bay. If you're a caster Spell Mantles will save him from you. If you're a sneaker pray that he's not a PM and you might be able to make it. You need a mage of his caliber, another arcane caster that can use mords = dispel and then kill.
You could try to wear off his spells but that's a hard one, a high saves/HP Cleric with Healing Domain, I've never really tried it, but a true high HP (with lots of Heal) and saves would resist off his spells, when he's out of spells you go melee. I hardly think this would work but you can always hope. _________________
Quote: Posted 12/19/06 19:54 (GMT) -- FinneousPJ
Thax the Shadow Dragon sez: MONKS USE KAMAS. Just ask him.
Quote: Posted 08/20/07 14:06 (GMT) -- TyrTemplar As to mord's and impr.invis., no, it does not, Merlin. Mords dispels ghostly and etheral, but not impr.invis; impr.invis. can be purged (by rangers, clerics), however. (But it's not in the mord's script, and therefore not breachable), unless that's changed recently, but not according to the Wiki:
I tested it and Mords does get rid of Improved Invis. I think it is spell breaches that do not. Wiki might need a little tweak.
Quote: Posted 08/20/07 14:20 (GMT) -- Tattoed Monk The other thing that can work is a cleric - Harm, followed by any Cause Wounds spell will take them out in 1 round, or Implosion, as long as they don't have a spell shield up (and of course if they haven't used Bigby's or Time Stop on you first).
Shadow Shield would protect against Harm. Implosion is scary though.
Merlin, what, the wiki's needin' some tweaking again? well, imagine that, folks (OK all you mage fans, go fix it already and update it, will ya? (just teasing, but really, if we don't do it when we find stuff wrong and/or out of date, then who will, right? (and yeah, I've some stuff to input, too -- unfortunately, it's being merged/moved to "wikia" so can't edit anything right now, but really appreciate you testing that proper, Merlin -- thanks!)
As to the OP's question, as you can see, Monk, there's a diversity of opinion going on over here (excellent, and really, melee vs. mages ... goin' on pretty much since the start of PnP (and for good reason, as we see
Seriously though, it is indeed true that dem mages can be tricky alright and really would help if we knew a wee tad bit more about your world, as in: magic level (what kind of items are available? What about elemental resistance (thinking acid and/or fire in particular and so on, and so forth.
Cheers, everyone, and great points, all! (although, dare I admit, well, when it comes to meelee'rs vs. mages, I'm still liking the paladin (then, you guys know how much I like that holy sword ~ Tyr _________________ "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good [people] to do nothing" -- Edmund Burke, Philosopher and Politician (1729-1797)
Edited By TyrTemplar on 08/21/07 03:45
From my experience, Mord's does strip Improved Invisibility.
Thanks, Mantis:
Yeah, Merlin just tested that properly for us, as it's not what the wiki says; wouldn't be the first time the Wiki's wrong, sadly (although we're pretty good here I think about fixing and updating stuff when we catch it, so it's pretty dependable overall; problem is right now it's locked/unavailable for editing, but once it's open again, I'm sure Merlin will get around to tweaking it for us (ain't that right, Merlin? (and thanks, much appreciated! _________________ "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good [people] to do nothing" -- Edmund Burke, Philosopher and Politician (1729-1797)
Edited By TyrTemplar on 08/21/07 04:57
NWNWiki has enabled editing while they work through some issues. I'll see if I can get around to fixing up the Mord's description.
I also play on a lvl 60 server, got any ideas on how to kill mages on a server like that?
Quote: Posted 08/21/07 23:30 (GMT) -- Monk9292
I also play on a lvl 60 server, got any ideas on how to kill mages on a server like that?
Would it be so different? Epic Warding and Premonition would scale all the way, and durations would be even more insanely long on stuff, but most damage spells cap well below 40. Except Flame Arrow and Ice Storm I guess. Ouch.
Edited By whirlin_merlin on 08/22/07 09:47
Quote: Posted 08/21/07 23:30 (GMT) -- Monk9292
I also play on a lvl 60 server, got any ideas on how to kill mages on a server like that?
Wait 'til they sleep and sneak 'em _________________ -4SakN
The Moonshae Isles - Forgotten Realms A Role Play, Low Magic world
Here's my Rak Build.
Click Here
Uses Cleric as the source of the Empowered Ice Storm rather than Druid.
Cleric also has many other nice self buffing spells that help a party or pets.
I also play on a lvl 60 server, got any ideas on how to kill mages on a server like that?
Would it be so different? Epic Warding and Premonition would scale all the way, and durations would be even more insanely long on stuff, but most damage spells cap well below 40. Except Flame Arrow and Ice Storm I guess. Ouch.
Who knows, really most spells get capped way below level 40, Fighters keep gaining damage and HP, at level 60 IGMS won't work as good to kill people, but heck, you're right Time Stop and Epic Warding still own. Mestil's Acid Sheath and Elemental Shield cap? they didn't cap up to level 40... if they don't cap up to level 60 then your higher HP is of not much use.
I would use an Arcane Archer on a level 60 server, it's one of the most steady classes while leveling up, your damage and AB keeps going up at a good constant rate. Probably a Ranger 21 / Bard 2 / Arcane Archer 37, add that Enchant Arrow to Bane of Enemies and your damage could deal nice damage without suiciding to the shields, and it's a nice build to play at any rate. Even so, it's not enough to beat Epic Warding. _________________
Quote: Posted 12/19/06 19:54 (GMT) -- FinneousPJ
Thax the Shadow Dragon sez: MONKS USE KAMAS. Just ask him.
Edited By Thaxll'ssyllia on 08/22/07 23:46
If I use Brom's Rak time stop wont work on me correct?
Time Stop always works unless the server has its effect changed, it basically affects the whole scenario/area, there is no possible way to avert it, hence why it's such a godly spell. _________________
Quote: Posted 07/28/06 23:16:09 (GMT) -- Big Meph Using the 2 ESF's in a dex based sneak build, to me, just looks like you're teasing your diabetic opponent with extra sugar on your whipcream covered chocolate mudcake.
Quote: Posted 08/22/07 23:39 (GMT) -- Thaxll'ssyllia Mestil's Acid Sheath and Elemental Shield cap? they didn't cap up to level 40... if they don't cap up to level 60 then your higher HP is of not much use.
They should scale all the way up.
Quote: Posted 08/22/07 23:39 (GMT) -- Thaxll'ssyllia I would use an Arcane Archer on a level 60 server, it's one of the most steady classes while leveling up, your damage and AB keeps going up at a good constant rate.
I don't think you can go above Enchant Arrow XV, can you?
Quote: Posted 08/20/07 14:06 (GMT) -- TyrTemplar
As to mord's and impr.invis., no, it does not, Merlin.
Mords is not a pure breach spell. It is also a dispel without a cap. Improved invisibility will not be one of the six breaches but it can be dispelled by any character that is has more than 10 levels less than your character level in the class of wiz or sorc.
I don't think you can go above Enchant Arrow XV, can you?
I'm not sure, but Kalmar_Oxin said it did on his level 60 server, it should also work on this one.
Would Mithdradates build, Click Here help me. It seems pretty good, but what do I know .
How much SP does a Rakasha have?
Opoos nevermind just realized what the Rakasha spell resistances is.
(and can't exactly fire off anything anyway once you get 'em on their back - can always try to sneak via umd/imrp.invis, which only rangers and clerics can purge (not mages imo, not even w. mord's 
(OK all you mage fans, go fix it already and update it, will ya?