All right i want to play this guy on an online server. This online server allows HIPS for Assassin on LVL 8 so there is no need for the Shadow Dancer LVL at all, right? So if there is no need for the Shadow Dancer LVL then do i need to take dodge and mobility right? As they are Shadow Dancer prerequisites. If I do not need to take those feats then what should I substitute?
Thanks in advance, Krylocke
Quote: Posted 10/07/07 05:12 (GMT) -- Krylocke
Questions about this build Click Here
All right i want to play this guy on an online server. This online server allows HIPS for Assassin on LVL 8 so there is no need for the Shadow Dancer LVL at all, right? So if there is no need for the Shadow Dancer LVL then do i need to take dodge and mobility right? As they are Shadow Dancer prerequisites. If I do not need to take those feats then what should I substitute?
Thanks in advance, Krylocke
I would think about taking Iron Will and Luck of Heroes, I like to take the save boosting feats. Or, if you wanted an even higher initiative, you could take Thug. Which I believe gives another +2 to initiative.
Quote: Posted 10/07/07 05:12 (GMT) -- Krylocke
Questions about this build Click Here
All right i want to play this guy on an online server. This online server allows HIPS for Assassin on LVL 8 so there is no need for the Shadow Dancer LVL at all, right? So if there is no need for the Shadow Dancer LVL then do i need to take dodge and mobility right? As they are Shadow Dancer prerequisites. If I do not need to take those feats then what should I substitute?
Thanks in advance, Krylocke
If you don't need SD then you'll want to go with FTR/Rogue/Assassin so you don't have to cross class any skillpoints. Or otherwise use Ranger like Ranger 10/FTR 4/Assassin 26: there's a DEX based version by the Dwarflord but you can easily go the STR route. _________________ They can't stop us Let them try For Heavy Metal We will die
You can just drop the 3rd class altogether, or maybe slide in 1Monk for Evasion. Dodge and Mobility can dropped for LoH and Iron Will, as suggested, or I might even pick up 2 skill foci: Hide and Move Silently, for even better stealth success for added HiPSing. _________________ Got Hommlet? World of Greyhawk Action Server (with 1/2 price ales on Mondays!)
Ariel, Ookla, RIDE!
I am a noob, so please excuse the noobish questions.
* whispers oh my god the Dwarflord is here *
I am very honored that you poked your head in here Grizzled Dwarflord. You have so many great builds and I have so very little time to play them all. I really like that fact that you’re an Assassin fan, as I like to play them.
Ok so now for some more questions. I thank you all for your answers and they are great, thanks to Kail Pendragon now I have another Assassin to try. The Ranger/Fighter/Assassin seems like a great option. Grizzled Dwarflord, the monk, for evasion seems like a real good idea.
Ok well at the end of the Assassin King there is a fighter lvl taken at 39. I presume that this is for the discipline dump and the Epic Weapon specialization right? Well the server that I play at does not really allow skill dumps. The server has this rule going on:
1.1. “Skill checks are now made at every level-up to stop the skill point carry over exploit. The maximum base skills, minus items and feats, a player can have at any given level is 3 + class 1 levels (divide by 2 if cross-class skill) + class 2 levels (divide by 2 if cross-class skill) + class 3 levels (divide by 2 if cross-class skill) + the ability modifier for that skill. For example, a level 20 fighter can have 23 (not including strength modifier) discipline skill points because discipline is a class skill for fighters. Now if a level 20 fighter is trying to max his hide skills, the maximum he could have is 13 (not including his dexterity modifier) since the hide skill is a cross-class skill for a fighter (basically half of a class skill).”
So it does not really matter what lvl I take the last fighter lvl on in epic right? (sorry for all these weird questions see the first line of this reply . I am just trying to get a better understanding of building characters) No matter what I do I can only get my discipline skill to 17, if I understand what was said above.
This goes for the same thing in the Huntress that Kail Pendragon suggested as well, right? The Huntress below Click Here The last Ranger lvl is for a Discipline dump and Epic Prowess, but because of the rule above I can only get the Discipline up to 13 (again if I understand it correctly). So I could take the last Ranger LVL earlier in epic right?
I also have a few more questions in regards to the Huntress build. On this server there is a race that I will use that gives +2 DEX +2 INTELL, and -2 CHAR. So with the +2 to DEX could I not take 2 great DEX feats and take other feats? Or would keeping the high DEX be more beneficial? Kail Pendragon also mentioned that going that going the strength route on The Huntress would not be hard. Would it make a better build if I did. (I think that The Dwarflord’s probably got it right with the DEX version or he would have gone strength, but I thought that I would ask anyway.)
Ok one more question for now. Is there something that I could read that would teach me how to make great characters?
Thanks again, Krylocke
Yes, you're right about the FTR level and the skill dump, so you can take it earlier if you want. You'll still get the FTR bonus feat, which you can use to take EWS earlier.
Probably not going to make a difference, but I'd be tempted to point out to your PW admins that their skill dumping rule is ludicrous and actually does more to go contrary to the PnP rules than allowing the skill dumps in the first place. _________________ It's rogue, dammit, ROGUE!!!
ya, I'm not fond of their skill dump rules either. I do not know enough about the game to argue with them though. I don't know if they would care either. Below is their reasoning i guess. I wish it were different, but its not. =:cry:
SKILL RANK RULES
The maximum base skills, minus items and feats, a player can have at any given level is 3 + class 1 levels (divide by 2 if cross-class skill) + class 2 levels (divide by 2 if cross-class skill) + class 3 levels (divide by 2 if cross-class skill) + the ability modifier for that skill. This is a major exploit in Neverwinter, where skill points can be carried over to other levels. This is no longer the case as it is fixed here. Example, the maximum CROSS-CLASS skill rank a player can have at level 20 is 3 + 20/2 = 13 + ability modifier (should be lower but makes it easier to remember). The maximum CLASS skill ranks a player may have at level 20 is 3 + 20 = 23 + ability modifier.
This makes player’s build characters true to their classes.
Quote: Posted 10/10/07 01:46 (GMT) -- Krylocke This makes player’s build characters true to their classes.
What is true, right, realistic, believable etc. is always subject to interpretation. Since we are dealing with a game, the game rules must define how the game is played.
One problem here is that NWN with its own set of rules is based on a pnp game with slightly different rules. It adds to the confusion that another set of rules appear in NWN2 based on an updated version of those pnp rules. On top of that come all the tweaks made to the rules on different servers for different reasons.
In NWN2 we have the able learner feat that let a character treat all class skills from its classes as class skills at every lvl up. In my opinion that also makes characters built true to their classes.
Bottom line: The owner of the server decides what rules apply there. If you don't like the way they do it, don't listen to their rhetoric. Move to a better place. _________________ I generally avoid temptation, unless I can't resist it...
So it looks like what they're saying is this:
A FTR 20/CoT 10/Rogue 10 would be restricted to a maximum of 28 ranks in UMD or Tumble (Assume 10 in both DEX and CHA). [3 + (FTR/2) + (CoT/2) + Rogue] = 3 + 10 + 5 + 10 = 28.
If so, this is horribly wrong. Even in the 3.0 rules, if a skill is a class skill for any of your character classes, the maximum ranks in the skill you can have is Character Level +3. That means the above character should be able to have 43 ranks in both those skills. The 'exploit' in NWN1 with the skill saving is that you don't have to spend all your skill points at each level-up and therefore don't pay double for the skill when it's taken on levels where it's a cross-class skill for the class in which you're levelling.
Now, imagine this character has 14 INT, so on every Rogue level he gets 10 skill points. That's a total of 100 skill points to spend on his Rogue class skills whenever he levels as a Rogue. Being primarily a combat oriented character, all he's interested in is the UMD and Tumble skills, so he spends 5 points in Tumble and 5 points in UMD every time he levels as a Rogue. This is perfectly legal, even in PnP. If he takes Rogue as his final character level, he can top out both skills at 43 ranks, and he'd still have 14 points left to distribute into something else. The server you play restricts this considerably, and contrary to what it should be.
These bloody systems like the one on the server that you play put into place just break the rules worse than the NWN implementation in the first place, IMO. I personally wouldn't even play there. Of course, if you like the server and you're cool with their implementation, then no worries. _________________ It's rogue, dammit, ROGUE!!!
Quote: Posted 10/10/07 14:59 (GMT) -- Cinnabar Din
These bloody systems like the one on the server that you play put into place just break the rules worse than the NWN implementation in the first place, IMO. I personally wouldn't even play there. Of course, if you like the server and you're cool with their implementation, then no worries.
Sowing the seeds of sedition again, Master Din? But I agree, there are better ways of balancing a World without having to get into classes and skills and feats and whacking them with nerf bats. And while skill dumps may seem like an exploit by some perspective's, nothing is for free. There is still sacrifice that has to be made, which includes diluting the class, postponing other abilities, feats, spells, etc. Everything has a price, even exploits. In my mind, it's a wash and everything comes out even in the end. _________________ Got Hommlet? World of Greyhawk Action Server (with 1/2 price ales on Mondays!)
Ariel, Ookla, RIDE!
It's not an exploit, it's a house rule.
Anyhow there are better ways to indirectly limit skill dumps. One is to make all skills useful, so that you always have skills on which to spend points no matter what class you are levelling in. _________________ They can't stop us Let them try For Heavy Metal We will die
Quote: But I agree, there are better ways of balancing a World without having to get into classes and skills and feats and whacking them with nerf bats. And while skill dumps may seem like an exploit by some perspective's, nothing is for free. There is still sacrifice that has to be made, which includes diluting the class, postponing other abilities, feats, spells, etc. Everything has a price, even exploits. In my mind, it's a wash and everything comes out even in the end.
Absolutely. And Kail makes an excellent point about making more than a handful of skills actually useful. _________________ It's rogue, dammit, ROGUE!!!
ya, I'm not fond of their skill dump rules either. I do not know enough about the game to argue with them though. I don't know if they would care either. Below is their reasoning i guess. I wish it were different, but its not. =:cry: