I've taken a look at a couple of the Witch builds on the server. Including Aligory's Click Here But the Coven for this server is druid+arcane. notthesmartmark's Click Here is also intriguing on this score. But I have a hard time buying the connection of the witch to the undead.

So I'm thinking a real Morgana le Fey, which requires, I would say, 14's at least in all the "mental" attributes. Because of that, I'm leaning towards bard to get the most out of the intel for skill points. I really think ideally a witch would be druid/sorceress. Interestingly, the search engine shows none of these. Not too surprising, I guess, in the sense that coming up with a truly 1-40 playable version would be very difficult. Especially if flappy wings are out (and I don't want flappy wings).

My initial take is (for 1-30):

Half Elven, Female, CN Druid 18/Bard 6/Shifter 6

10 Str
12 Dex
14 Con
14 Int
14 Wis (all points here)
14 Cha

Last 10 lvls would be 2 lvls of Druid, 2 of Bard for tumble, and 6 Shifter.

Although I wouldn't call the Witch the classic shifter whose "outward form" is meaningless, shapeshifting is often part of the magic in the tales. That said, I could drop the shifter for 5 levels of shadowdancer, perhaps? There's real MAD issues in the build no matter what I do.

Basically, I'm looking for something that's reasonably playable that meets the RP concept. Obviously it's not going to be optimized. But I think it could be fun. Though it makes me wish I had the Hathran PRC. A little more playing, if anyone is interested in a bit of commentary.

Human Druid 11/Sorcerer 26/Shifter 3

Str 8
Dex 14
Con 10
Int 14
Wis 15 (+1 lvl 4) final 16
Cha 15 (the rest) final 28

The idea is to use the companion as protection through the low levels. And druidic companions are easily the hardiest and most useful, IMHO. And then use shifter to make your PC melee friendly when things get tight in the mid levels. You pick up shifter 1 @ lvl 7. And even a wyrmling at that stage is useful in getting through much of what you can expect to face, with buffs. At level 9 you have awaken, so your companion, buffed, can handle a lot of the heavy lifting while you use call lightnings, ice storms, and grease spells for crowd control.

I took the 1st lvl sorcerer @ 3 for mage armor and prot. vs evil. lvl 20, she's druid 9, sorceress 8, shifter 3. Two more druid levels in epic to pick up heal. Everything else sorceress. She's undispellable on the sorcery side, w/ epic warding and the full spell penetration line. Obviously @ 26 lvls you're looking at the direct dmg no-save spells. But you're a sorceress, so what else *would* you use?

Obviously, this isn't running as high a spell DC as the RDD 10 version. But I think you would be useful in a party through the early/mid levels with all the buffs & shifter. And then you can sneak up on people just when they think you're getting weak in epic with the nasty Bigby's/ Isaac's spam menu.

I haven't run it through any mods yet for testing. But I think in low/mid magic worlds she'd be quite useful, and more survivable than one would expect with those initial stats (which get wiped if/when you shift anyway). Well, as I see it taking 3 Shifter levels is ridiculous, you could drop it and take one more Druid and one Monk level and the Dire Bear shift will beat this build in melee with ease. Taking 6 levels of shifter isn't very wise either, bumping Druid to get the elemental shapes is better, if you're going to take Shifter, you better take it into epics and grab the epic forms, those are pretty cool, but the pre-epic ones won't beat a pure Druid, they're just for fun.

I would like to be more helpful, but I don't understand the concept, regrettably I do not know what a "witch of a time" is or what requirements it needs to meet, not everyone knows Morgana le Fey. I assume taking a specific shift may have something to do, but I'd really require details in order to advice a build.

Druid / Sorcerer isn't really bad, but as any build with two caster classes, it matures very late, so for playable means you start heavy on druid or heavy on sorcerer, both are OK, but leveling both together just won't do.
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"My name is Thaxll'ssyllia, but you simians may refer to me merely as "Sir", if you prefer a less... syllable intensive workout."

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Edited By Thaxll'ssyllia on 12/14/08 02:40

The one more druid level sounds good. The shifter was in part for some skill points in stealth & detection too. Something this PC lacks. It made the camo/ one with the land line of spells useful to her. Monk doesn't fit. She's essentially a force of nature, very chaotic. Even if I don't go evil. And then there's the permanent xp penalty if I take monk when it would be useful to the dire bear.

I guess I could go with cross-classing hide/ms/tumble and then taking SD. It would take a long time to get there. But the build does have a surplus of skill points as compared to needs. Especially once the SD skill drop is open. And SD would allow for drops in tumble and detection, so that would make things more manageable.

As for the name, *shrugs* I was having fun. Basically, I'm trying to see if this concept works as compared to the other two builds above.

I agree, btw, about emphasizing druid (in this case) early and then coming back with sorcerer. I only take 1 level early on because mage armor & prot vs evil are two solid "bang for your buck" defensive spells the character could definitely use in early levels. Druids don't get the alignment protection spells. So missing mage armor might be acceptable early on, but missing both? One level of sorcerer for those spells early on certainly doesn't hurt, IMHO. If you take it to 40 . . . .

Druid 5 to qualify for shifter and get small buffs
Shifter 10 for a single epic shape (outsider for the win)
wizard 25 for an epic bonus feat (epic mage armor) I was thinking of something with a touch of PM. Perhaps something like Druid20/Bard4/PM16, or Druid26/Bard4/PM10. The witch in both cases obviously goes for Dragon Shape (just like ole girl in Sleeping Beauty, Malificent, who stands in my mind as the Witch Quintessential. She had that Vine Mine/Wall of Thorns thing going on, and then she had her god-awful Dragon Shape. Unfortunaley, because she was Neutral Evil, she was succeptible to the Smite Critical that handsome prince laid on her. See, if she would have consulted with me earlier, I would have said, "Girl, you need to get you some PM levels in ya just in case ole Joey Smites-a-lot ever decides to come check out your haunted castle on the mountain.")
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Ariel, Ookla, RIDE! grizzled,

The 20/4/16 is a lot like one of the builds I linked in the first post. And a witch who is preoccupied with maintaining her youthful appearance (which is a recurring theme, even with Malifence) certainly could turn to PM. Though the bony arm would be a darn miserable way to maintain that beauty. Probably why someone as vain as her didn't take those levels, grizzled.

I'd probably prefer the 16 though, since that gets you epic warding and all the niceties. And dragon shape with no crits and epic warding? Yum.
Quote: Posted 12/15/08 16:28 (GMT) -- RangerSG

Though the bony arm would be a darn miserable way to maintain that beauty. Probably why someone as vain as her didn't take those levels, grizzled.
Or, it could have been her way of maintaining beauty. Thinking that she would become "deathless," she chooses such a route, not realizing that the bony arm was a side effect. I'd assume that there wasn't some Palemaster Guide for Dummies that explicity told such fantasy characters that going down this road will give you a skeletal arm, so in their glee to become immortal, the thing just creeps up on them. She minimizes it by wearing long-sleeved robes and gloves, and overcompensating in other areas with suggestive, tight-fit clothing, tummy-tucks, lipos, botox, and the like.

Quote: I'd probably prefer the 16 though, since that gets you epic warding and all the niceties. And dragon shape with no crits and epic warding? Yum.
Aye, or you could even go Druid16/Bard4/PM20 for one more Epic Spell, +2AC, and a better Undead Summons. It would also increase Warding Duration and soak amount. You would water down your spell casting aspect, but once you go Dragon, game on!
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Ariel, Ookla, RIDE! I think the PM 16 option is better. Although the improved summons and lengthened warding would be nice, losing ninth lvl Druid spells (Storm of Vengeance, Elemental Swarm, and Mass Heal) would be a nasty ouchie.

And I agree, she'd just have to wear long sleeves, or an armlet that she never takes off that conceals her deformity. No wonder she was not the fairest of them all, no? The mirror could see what no one else could.
Quote: Posted 12/15/08 19:57 (GMT) -- grizzled_dwarflord

Aye, or you could even go Druid16/Bard4/PM20 for one more Epic Spell, +2AC, and a better Undead Summons. It would also increase Warding Duration and soak amount. You would water down your spell casting aspect, but once you go Dragon, game on!

Though I never play Druids, I believe you need atleast 18 levels of Druid to qualify for the Dragon Shape feat now.

ps - I like the reference to Malicifent. Might have to give the Druid class a go now. I do think you're right on the 18 as well, now that I think about it. Still, since the ninth level druid spells are nice anyway, no reason not to go 18.