Ok, I been stiring ideas for a build I want to play (mostely for fun) for a long time. Whenever I look into actually starting it, I get stuck in the infinite vortex of paths and directions one could take to mazamize its potential. Plan and simple, I want to mainly use the iron golum shape. I dont really need a full 1-40 detailed spread, but more of a general direction. Would takeing another class that utilizes wis be best like sorc or cleric? could the dd class be integrated and go for mass con and stack dr? And whats this buisness with servers not allowing monk/druid/shifter combos? Would going monk do anything for the golums unarmed attacks? I know some equiped items properties transfer into shifted form and some dont, the specifics of this would certaily play a major role in how one would go about building and equiping an "iron golum". Any advice would be awesome!
Quote: Posted 01/08/09 06:54 (GMT) -- James 136
Ok, I been stiring ideas for a build I want to play (mostely for fun) for a long time. Whenever I look into actually starting it, I get stuck in the infinite vortex of paths and directions one could take to mazamize its potential. Plan and simple, I want to mainly use the iron golum shape. I dont really need a full 1-40 detailed spread, but more of a general direction. Would takeing another class that utilizes wis be best like sorc or cleric? could the dd class be integrated and go for mass con and stack dr? And whats this buisness with servers not allowing monk/druid/shifter combos? Would going monk do anything for the golums unarmed attacks? I know some equiped items properties transfer into shifted form and some dont, the specifics of this would certaily play a major role in how one would go about building and equiping an "iron golum". Any advice would be awesome!
1st advice: It's Iron Golem, not Golum
2nd Advice: have you tried the Search Engine? I know there are a few builds there because I have already seen them. All will depend on how many levels of druid / shifter you want to get. You need at least 5 levels of druid to qualify for shifter.
3rd Advice: Going Monk gets you bonus AC due to wisdom, but in your case it would depend on how many levels of Druid you'd be willing to get. You'd need at least 13 levels of Shifter (I may be wrong, so if I am, can anyone correct me?) to get Construct Shape. 1 Monk level can give you Evasion, a better unarmed attack progression, Wisdom-based AC bonus and Cleave, so really, you NEED to have at least Monk 1. You could get Monk 6 for Monk Speed, Still Mind, +1 AC and Knockdown / Improved Knockdown for free.
4th Advice: Having even more Monk levels would really help your cause. If you get at least 18 levels of Monk, you get Empty body, which gives you 50% concealment bonus (stacked with the golem's DR, that will make you physically almost-untouchable). You could get Druid 8, Monk 12, so that you don't lose on pre-epic AB and at 21st level go Monk for Improved Spell Resistance (multiple times) Get shifter on non-feat levels and Monk on feat levels until there's no more room for Monk. You should also consider getting some Epic Energy Resistance (fire) - (10 should be enough) to be well protected against Darkfire and Flame Weapon. The final split should be something like Druid (9) {for max spellcraft at level 37} / Shifter (13) / Monk (18) {for empty body}. That way you can be well-protected against pretty much anything but the most dedicated casters and a Paladin's or Cleric's Divine Might. Since the Iron Golem isn't that big, you can walk around shifted and still fit through doors. Offensively, though you won't be as effective. But you can kill anything in half an hour
I hope that this can "clear" your path a bit.
Take it EZ!
Quote: by James 136 Would going monk do anything for the golums unarmed attacks?
Yeah, golems fight unarmed, so you get Monk AC bonus, Monk's APR, you can use flurry of blows, and even better, your damage depends on the golem, not the monk level, so it's powerful with just one Monk level. Many shifts get these bonuses, that's why sometimes the class combination gets banned.
Take a look at The Stone Smasher (Druid 5 / Shifter 10 / Monk 25) by Bromium. _________________ "My name is Thaxll'ssyllia, but you simians may refer to me merely as "Sir", if you prefer a less... syllable intensive workout."
Edwin Odesseiron - Baldur's Gate II: Shadows of Amn
Edited By Thaxll'ssyllia on 01/08/09 23:47
Since you left it TOTALY open...
First, download the PRC! Dont ask, just DO IT!
Then, make a druid/brawler/shifter from a halforc with 25 end str and whatever wis you need for construct.
THEN, take this ESSENTIAL set of feats, wf:unarmed, ic:unarmed, power attack, cleave, gr cleave, oc:unarmed, dev crit: unarmed, epic wf and epic prowess. THe rest are up to you.
Why, you may ask? CUZ! By downloading the PRC you now have access to the PRC modifications. Brawler, which is a base class in the prc, gets a very secret feat that is revealed when you do as i say above (actually, you dont need to do all of it, but dev crit is FUN).
Now, you will have Dev crit with your Iron Golum shape. Or any other shape, for that matter. You can even take the spit, 15dr/15sh/10 brawler!
anyway, that is the POWER gamers way to build a golum. Or, you can NOT download the PRC mod and go about as an ordinary Iron golem. You wont be that tough, so id stick to the OC only. Or, you can ask maxi million who posted above for some other wimpy mods to try! jk but seriously, dont try this at home.
Go with the prc. It seems that you have masterd the basic game so why not add 30 new classes and 10 new races! You'll be fine
Quote: by James 136 Would going monk do anything for the golums unarmed attacks?
Yeah, golems fight unarmed, so you get Monk AC bonus, Monk's APR, you can use flurry of blows, and even better, your damage depends on the golem, not the monk level, so it's powerful with just one Monk level. Many shifts get these bonuses, that's why sometimes the class combination gets banned.
Take a look at The Stone Smasher (Druid 5 / Shifter 10 / Monk 25) by Bromium.
I liked that build, but really going that far off your way to get one bonus feat as an epic monk is not something I'd do. By going Druid 9 you don't hurt yor pre-epic BAB and still get to Max Spellcraft in the end for your saves (and 5th level spells like Energy buffer could really come in handy).
To me more than 18 Monk levels is kind of a waste, since if you get Spell Resistance feats you won't have to worry about spells.
Take it EZ!
Edited By Maximillian Kane on 01/09/09 11:48
Monk 20 and 25 add 1 AC, and monk 25 is a bonus feat. For the record.
Quote: by Maximilian Kane I liked that build, but really going that far off your way to get one bonus feat as an epic monk is not something I'd do. By going Druid 9 you don't hurt yor pre-epic BAB and still get to Max Spellcraft in the end for your saves (and 5th level spells like Energy buffer could really come in handy).
To me more than 18 Monk levels is kind of a waste, since if you get Spell Resistance feats you won't have to worry about spells.
Well, it's not my build, but if you're looking for a shifter build, you'll do better to look first into Bromium's list on the index rather than the searcher. For my playstyle I'd rather drop a lot of Monk to raise Druid, I like the buffs, Premonition and Energy Buffer are great to have in PvM, as well as Owl's Insight, preferably a high level one. Anyway, while I'd prefer Druid taking more Monk above 18 up to 25 will give you 1 bonus feat (which yeah, ISR doesn't seem worth it), +2 AC and more Stunning Fist attempts, I think that's about it. _________________ "My name is Thaxll'ssyllia, but you simians may refer to me merely as "Sir", if you prefer a less... syllable intensive workout."
Edwin Odesseiron - Baldur's Gate II: Shadows of Amn
Monk 20 and 25 add 1 AC, and monk 25 is a bonus feat. For the record.
Druid 9 Gives you +1 AB, +4 to all saves and extra buffs. Think about it, with the HUGE Damage Reduction from the Iron Golem shape, I don't think you'd benefit much from the AC gain as you would from the pre-epic AB, saves and buffs.
Quote: by Maximilian Kane I liked that build, but really going that far off your way to get one bonus feat as an epic monk is not something I'd do. By going Druid 9 you don't hurt yor pre-epic BAB and still get to Max Spellcraft in the end for your saves (and 5th level spells like Energy buffer could really come in handy).
To me more than 18 Monk levels is kind of a waste, since if you get Spell Resistance feats you won't have to worry about spells.
Well, it's not my build, but if you're looking for a shifter build, you'll do better to look first into Bromium's list on the index rather than the searcher. For my playstyle I'd rather drop a lot of Monk to raise Druid, I like the buffs, Premonition and Energy Buffer are great to have in PvM, as well as Owl's Insight, preferably a high level one. Anyway, while I'd prefer Druid taking more Monk above 18 up to 25 will give you 1 bonus feat (which yeah, ISR doesn't seem worth it), +2 AC and more Stunning Fist attempts, I think that's about it.
Thax, I do think that ISR is worth it, but not just once. If you're going to get ISR, get at least 4 of those. That would be neat. 2 Epic Energy Resistance (Fire) for Flame Weapon / Darkfire users and you've got yourself a Mage demolition Machine . Something like this:
Pre-Epic Feats: Power Attack, Disarm, Improved Disarm, Improved Critical (Unarmed), Expertise, Alertness, Extend Spell, Empower Spell (you could swap these Metamagic feats easily since you only have 9 levels of Druid for any other two of your choice, since I'm only brainstorming, I really didn't put much thought into it)
21-24 Monk (12) (Epic Energy Resistance Fire I and II, Improved Evasion, Diamond Body, Ki Strike +1, Diamond Soul) 25-26 Shifter (6) 27 Monk (13) (ISR I) 28-29 Shifter (8) 30 Monk (14) (ISR II) 31-32 Shifter (10) 33 Monk (15) (ISR III) 34-35 Shifter (12) 36 Monk (16) (ISR IV) 37 Shifter (13) (Construct Shape) 38 Druid (Max Spellcraft) 39-40 Monk (18) (Epic Prowess, Empty Body, Max Tumble, Discipline, Listen and whatever else this build allows you to get)
This guy has to be human for no XP penalties, and the SR should be 36 (over MAX toolset), and since golems are mostly harmed by spells, you should be safe from almost all casters (except pure ones).
BTW . Before you say anything, avado, I was just brainstorming. To make this build more playable you could go Monk 12 Druid 8 Pre-epic and get the Epic Energy Resistances as a Shifter post-epic, but then you'd have to forget about shapeshifting for a LONG time. It is a level 40 build doable by a monkey, but I like the result .
Take it EZ!
Edited By Maximillian Kane on 01/09/09 19:55
Quote: by Maximilian Kane Druid 9 Gives you +1 AB, +4 to all saves and extra buffs. Think about it, with the HUGE Damage Reduction from the Iron Golem shape, I don't think you'd benefit much from the AC gain as you would from the pre-epic AB, saves and buffs.
What was that? I'm lost, the buffs are notoriously obvious, but Druid giving AB and saves over Monk? you do know that Monk and Druid get the same BAB progression, and Bromium's spread is perfect BAB-wise. Also, all classes get the same saves in epics, on the other hand, Monk is the best class to raise saves pre-epic, so if you take a second class pre-epic you'd end with about +2 bonus on the high saves and -1 on the low saves (those values depend on the exact spread though, +2/-1 is not a predefined value)... so... explain yourself. _________________ "My name is Thaxll'ssyllia, but you simians may refer to me merely as "Sir", if you prefer a less... syllable intensive workout."
Edwin Odesseiron - Baldur's Gate II: Shadows of Amn
Quote: Posted 01/09/09 19:25 (GMT) -- Maximillian Kane
Thax, I do think that ISR is worth it, but not just once. If you're going to get ISR, get at least 4 of those. That would be neat. 2 Epic Energy Resistance (Fire) for Flame Weapon / Darkfire users and you've got yourself a Mage demolition Machine . Something like this:
If you really mean that, then Monk25 actually frees up 5 feats, not 1. You get 2 more AC, 1 less SR, but 4 feats which you previously spent on ISR and 1 monk bonus feat.
More druid has it's benfit, no contest, but I just think the argument I adressed here is totally wrong. _________________ We are sons of Odin, and the fire that we burn inside is the legacy of warrior-kings who reign above in the sky I will lead the charge, my sword into the wind Sons of Odin fights to die and live again
@ Thax
I was wrong about the +1 AB, I only had a quick look at Bromium's build. Let me ask you something:
If he were to get Monk 16 Druid 4 Pre-epic in his build, how much would he lose in terms of saves in the Monk / Druid axis?
Monk has all saves as high, and Druid only has Reflex as low. According to my calculations, going Monk 12 / Druid 8 pre-epic will give you the following pre-epic saves: 14/10/14 as opposed to 12/12/12 from Monk 20. The +4 to saves are from MAX Spellcraft (I should've said VS Spells I guess, sorry for not being so clear, I hope now it's sufficiently explained ), although they are indeed +3 since his last Druid level is taken at 25 (Max possible Spellcraft is 28).
@ Grimnir77
IMO AC is not a major concern here. I think that the +2 from Monk 25 and the +2 from Armor Skin are pretty much worthless (just a personal opinion) with the Golem's Damage Reduction. Shifted, he should have enough HP to be able to withstand whatever damage can surpass his DR and a good deal of damage from Divine Might blows. You would get 35 SR as opposed to my guy's 36, and 4 feats to do what? I mean, the only one that I can see a use for is ESF Discipline, but I can get that for either Epic Prowess or Epic Energy Resistance Fire II. Since there isn't much that can be used while shifted I see little point in doing it this way. The advantage of going Druid 9, besides the buffing power, is the possibility of getting that late Spellcraft dump at level 37 and increasing your saves for another 3 points VS whichever spells can surpass your SR. Again, I guess it's all a matter of personal preference, I think.
BTW: why ESF spot? Isn't a Golem immune to Sneaks?
Take it EZ!
Edited By Maximillian Kane on 01/11/09 20:03
Ok spellcraft, now that makes sense. You will always get a bonus in the higher saves when adding another class because you get +2 with the first level, but you'll always lose in the low save because you get 0. It's more drastic with Monk for having all the high saves. Taking 4 levels of the second class is perfect saves-wise because it's a level at which the high saves increase their value. The thing with saves is, well, you're a Monk, you'll become immune to mind spells so you can ditch Will, but you can't ditch Reflex because it helps with Evasion, Improved Evasion is no excuse, I prefer the save to work. Altogether, adding "vs spells" to what you said earlier fixes the issue I was adressing. _________________ "My name is Thaxll'ssyllia, but you simians may refer to me merely as "Sir", if you prefer a less... syllable intensive workout."
Edwin Odesseiron - Baldur's Gate II: Shadows of Amn
Quote: Posted 01/11/09 20:01 (GMT) -- Maximillian Kane
@ Grimnir77
IMO AC is not a major concern here. I think that the +2 from Monk 25 and the +2 from Armor Skin are pretty much worthless (just a personal opinion) with the Golem's Damage Reduction. Shifted, he should have enough HP to be able to withstand whatever damage can surpass his DR and a good deal of damage from Divine Might blows. You would get 35 SR as opposed to my guy's 36, and 4 feats to do what? I mean, the only one that I can see a use for is ESF Discipline, but I can get that for either Epic Prowess or Epic Energy Resistance Fire II.
Take it EZ!
So you would rather have 1 extra SR instead of 4 AC? or whatnot.
The feats then, well you could use them on 4 ISR for example.
Or 4 Great wisdom, or 2 and 2 ISR, or whatever you want, for 1 SR it's a good trade no matter IMO. _________________ We are sons of Odin, and the fire that we burn inside is the legacy of warrior-kings who reign above in the sky I will lead the charge, my sword into the wind Sons of Odin fights to die and live again
jk but seriously, dont try this at home. 
