Hi I've been trying to figure out a good all purpose build for a server I play on, lemme give you a little run down of it. It's a Team PvP capture the flag style thing with many things nerfed or a rules on them, can't spam stun, hold, death, confuse, fear, KD or anything else you can think of that would keep someone in place for long. Can't run and shoot/melee/cast or spam hide either but that still doesnt stop alot of builds with sneak/death attack or crits.
Since there's really no rule on it people frequent to simply run away if they can't beat you or if they have the flag, they usually have monk/barbarian speed in the first place so there's little to no point trying to catch them, another thing is people with invis or HiPs, since True seeing's duration has been halved on the server there's alot of builds with one or both.
But of course there's always mages so if you have a nice battle cleric fully buffed up and ready to lay some smackdown think again, if there's a mage around your level and no there's no rule about spamming dispel to only then through out a DC 40-ish death/stun/hold spell. As you can see theres quite alot of crap for one build to have to deal with, either you'll get sneaked or critted, kite-ed, dispelled and then finally killed at some point.
Since you start out at level 10 and gain levels based on you or your team capturing the flag or killing another player around your level (+5 or -5) I've found it difficult to assess all the problems any one build encounters, I though about a Monk 14/Wizard 21/ SD 5 for starters but thats more of an rebuild once your at level 40 thing. So therein lays my problem, trying to work out something all purpose or at least something that can handle a good deal of whats being dished out and PvP starting at level 10 against characters at least 1-4 levels higher than it is, +5s usually have the decency not to kill a -5 person.
Thanks in advance to any who provide advice or a solution.
EDIT: Also it's sorta low magic, by that I mean the highest bonus is +5.
Edited By Vincent Ryans on 01/26/09 23:32
Well, if you want to capture the flag, it sounds to me like a pure monk might be the way to go (or monk 39/ SD1). Go dex based, use your bonus feats for Armor Skin and Imp SR, general feats for Great Dex. You'll end up with high AC, high SR, high Hide/MS, and a LOT of speed (if you want to really max the speed, take 1 level Barb as well). You can sneak in, then run like heck out with the flag, and probably not get touched by spell or melee.
You won't have much melee yourself (especially with IKD and SF against the rules), but you'll be like the Scout in Team Fortress.
Well, if you want to capture the flag, it sounds to me like a pure monk might be the way to go (or monk 39/ SD1). Go dex based, use your bonus feats for Armor Skin and Imp SR, general feats for Great Dex. You'll end up with high AC, high SR, high Hide/MS, and a LOT of speed (if you want to really max the speed, take 1 level Barb as well). You can sneak in, then run like heck out with the flag, and probably not get touched by spell or melee.
You won't have much melee yourself (especially with IKD and SF against the rules), but you'll be like the Scout in Team Fortress.
TM
Interesting idea but monk speed is supposedly taken away when you have the flag, granted your slower but still anyone without monk/barb levels wont be able to catch you, it decreases AC as well though I'm not sure how much depending on your build so AA's and mages would still get a good shot at taking you down.
NOTE: Forgot to mention that if you have the flag anyone any level on the opposite team can attack you to get it back, so making a pure flag capper won't go too well if there's some high levels around if your only level 10-20.
Edited By Vincent Ryans on 01/27/09 02:07
Quote: Posted 01/27/09 00:53 (GMT) -- Tattoed Monk (if you want to really max the speed, take 1 level Barb as well)
Useless, Monk and Barbarian speed do not stack. _________________ They can't stop us Let them try For Heavy Metal We will die
Use a Dwarven Defender then, that will make you resist a lot of physical damage when you're running with the flag. You take some Fighter levels to raise the BAB needed to qualify for Dwarven Defender and get 21 CON at level 20 so you can get EDR ASAP, simple and resistant. _________________ "My name is Thaxll'ssyllia, but you simians may refer to me merely as "Sir", if you prefer a less... syllable intensive workout."
Edwin Odesseiron - Baldur's Gate II: Shadows of Amn
Use a Dwarven Defender then, that will make you resist a lot of physical damage when you're running with the flag. You take some Fighter levels to raise the BAB needed to qualify for Dwarven Defender and get 21 CON at level 20 so you can get EDR ASAP, simple and resistant.
Also viable, but again, start at level 10 and gain xp based on PvP/Flag capturing so I need something that can PvP starting at level 10 and beyond beginning with +2 items - +5 items max.
Hmmmm, a good level 10 for PvP could be a Druid 9 / Monk 1 shifted into Bear. _________________ "My name is Thaxll'ssyllia, but you simians may refer to me merely as "Sir", if you prefer a less... syllable intensive workout."
Edwin Odesseiron - Baldur's Gate II: Shadows of Amn
You know where i stand!
i think thax may have the answer with high druid/monk/sd. That way you got high shapes, wisdom ac, and HIPS.
see thax' post at the top of this forum! well worth the read.
other than that, you could always go defender/bard/pm10.
Both good points, I've had some success with a druid/shifter/assassin build in kobold form, but anything immune to sneaks, or a RDD which are like 8/10 melee builds or close to it, or anything with True seeing. Druid/monk/sd seems interesting though, with some IKD and monk speed it should be hard to get away from with or without the flag.
Edited By Vincent Ryans on 01/27/09 07:01
Quote: Posted 01/27/09 05:07 (GMT) -- Vincent Ryans
Also viable, but again, start at level 10 and gain xp based on PvP/Flag capturing so I need something that can PvP starting at level 10 and beyond beginning with +2 items - +5 items max.
If you are talking about Antiworld, you make leveling up look harder than it is. a FTR/DwD/Rogue will be leveled up easily enough. _________________ They can't stop us Let them try For Heavy Metal We will die
It always seems like it to me, no matter what level 10 build I start off with there's always something around my level range that seems like they already have +5 equips stacked up to kill you with.
Druid 9/Monk 1 didn't work out, didn't have the AB to hit the broad side of anything, and an AC everything else can hit.
Hmmmm, true, if they can get +5 weapons then your AB is going to be a bit lower, though I don't see why you can't hit "anything", you should get 15 to 17 AB (depending on the Bull's Strength roll), while a Half-Orc Fighter with max Strength would get 21 with a +5 weapon. You said nothing about armors, the Druid would get about the same AC as a fighter with armor and shield, but nowhere near if they have +5 to all AC types. I just thought on Druid because I used to devastate all existence on a level 20 with +3 enhancement I used to play on using a Druid, guess the environment is considerably different.
I can't see how you get owned in level 10 anyway. A lot of good spells are disabled according to you, and all melee builds would get about the same stats given the same weapons, because you don't have enough levels yet to pick considerably different routes, so every fight would be pretty even. A Half-orc Barbarian would get the highest AB and damage at level 10, with 22 base STR + Rage, and the same armored AC as any other. A DEX based build wouldn't get enough levels to beat the AC of a Heavy Armor. 10 are not enough levels to take the RDD STR goodness, DwD DR, PM crit immunity. I can't figure any build that would truly excel at level 10, my guess is you really need to level up, find the good weapons or get a team.
EDIT: Now that I think of it, probably a Cleric would hit hardest at level 10. Divine Power will make up for the BAB and Darkfire will boost your damage above the rest. Divine Favor will add to both, and those are just three buffs, you get more. _________________ "My name is Thaxll'ssyllia, but you simians may refer to me merely as "Sir", if you prefer a less... syllable intensive workout."
Edwin Odesseiron - Baldur's Gate II: Shadows of Amn
Hmmmm, true, if they can get +5 weapons then your AB is going to be a bit lower, though I don't see why you can't hit "anything", you should get 15 to 17 AB (depending on the Bull's Strength roll), while a Half-Orc Fighter with max Strength would get 21 with a +5 weapon. You said nothing about armors, the Druid would get about the same AC as a fighter with armor and shield, but nowhere near if they have +5 to all AC types. I just thought on Druid because I used to devastate all existence on a level 20 with +3 enhancement I used to play on using a Druid, guess the environment is considerably different.
I can't see how you get owned in level 10 anyway. A lot of good spells are disabled according to you, and all melee builds would get about the same stats given the same weapons, because you don't have enough levels yet to pick considerably different routes, so every fight would be pretty even. A Half-orc Barbarian would get the highest AB and damage at level 10, with 22 base STR + Rage, and the same armored AC as any other. A DEX based build wouldn't get enough levels to beat the AC of a Heavy Armor. 10 are not enough levels to take the RDD STR goodness, DwD DR, PM crit immunity. I can't figure any build that would truly excel at level 10, my guess is you really need to level up, find the good weapons or get a team.
EDIT: Now that I think of it, probably a Cleric would hit hardest at level 10. Divine Power will make up for the BAB and Darkfire will boost your damage above the rest. Divine Favor will add to both, and those are just three buffs, you get more.
They aren't disabled, it's just anything that can be abused there's a no spamming rule on it (18 second delay that you can cast stun, hold, paralyze, fear or w/e) I had about 25 AB due to low level bonus and only 29 AC with what I could buy that merged with the bear form so could only hit a level 10 mage. Though throw in some shifter and it's significantly better in those forms for leveling purpose for one reason or another. Cleric does alright but all it's AB boosting spells dont stack with the low level bonus but the damage will, that and people can get dispell pretty easily via scroll/rod.
Alignment change and re-leveling is possible and there's some extra stuff for Blackguards and Assassins, BG's get more spell-like abilities like Pally's and Assassins get HiPs at level 5, not sure what else was added.
Edited By Vincent Ryans on 01/28/09 02:38
Hmmmm, I still don't get it quite through, even if you can't spam a stun attack, what would stop, say, Stonehold? (I know you need to be at least level 11 to cast this spell, but it's a real possibility anyway) It's the longest duration stunning spell in the game, so you just cast it once and it lasts 1 round/level or 2 rounds/level if extended, a duration way longer than the 18 second no-spam, which is only 3 rounds, and it re-hits automatically without further clicking. How would the no-spam rule work against it? _________________ "My name is Thaxll'ssyllia, but you simians may refer to me merely as "Sir", if you prefer a less... syllable intensive workout."
Edwin Odesseiron - Baldur's Gate II: Shadows of Amn
Quote: Posted 01/27/09 17:23 (GMT) -- Vincent Ryans
Druid 9/Monk 1 didn't work out, didn't have the AB to hit the broad side of anything, and an AC everything else can hit.
Thax be nice to him. I think you should read thax' post about druids if you are goin to use druid. You have to use SHAPES! druids and monks have 3/4 ab so you need something to up that, and the shapes, as thax teaches is the way.
other than that, i am wondering about such a server. If you just want AB at lv 10 go ftr6/wm4 with ALOT of wm left on your way to 40. other than that, why argue?
my PERSONAL preference would be a cleric20+/bard4/pm 10. That gives you everything you need for pvm AND pvp.
btw, you do realize that pvp in nwn is stacked, right? I mean, the game was never really designed for pvp (the pvp setting ONLY means that AoE spells can or cant affect party members). Here comes my patented response to this sort of ridiculous give and take: yes, you told us about the server, fine. WHAT DO YOU LIKE? HOW DO YOU PLAY? The reality is, no one can predict that. Thax would have no problems with a druid, while i would stink up the place with his exact build. I play clerics, but i have seen others play my builds and not even come close the same effectiveness (we were in party together pvm). There are MANY all around builds. It isnt that build, it is you that you need to settle on. If you are having troubles, you need to spend time playin and learning. THen look through the guild to find something that meets YOUR liking and tweak that build to your style.
The BEST all around build (to answer the ot) is a cleric. Cleric/pm, cleric/rdd, cleric/cot what ever you want. The cleric has something for EVERY situation. i am sure thax can argue for druids.
IT is realy futile to continue to ask for help then post things like this when you maybe dont like a druid9/monk! This post has become no more nor less than a "what is the uberest build so i dont have to do anything and i can be 'leeeet (or however the noobs do it)."
sorry for the rant, but you were given lots of ideas, now the work is up to YOU! Shocking isnt it? _________________
This post is for general information purposes only, and does not constitute a legal opinion or render any legal advice. It may not be relied on for any purpose, and gives rise to
Quote: Posted 01/28/09 05:53 (GMT) -- avado
Quote: Posted 01/27/09 17:23 (GMT) -- Vincent Ryans
Druid 9/Monk 1 didn't work out, didn't have the AB to hit the broad side of anything, and an AC everything else can hit.
Thax be nice to him. I think you should read thax' post about druids if you are goin to use druid. You have to use SHAPES! druids and monks have 3/4 ab so you need something to up that, and the shapes, as thax teaches is the way.
other than that, i am wondering about such a server. If you just want AB at lv 10 go ftr6/wm4 with ALOT of wm left on your way to 40. other than that, why argue?
my PERSONAL preference would be a cleric20+/bard4/pm 10. That gives you everything you need for pvm AND pvp.
btw, you do realize that pvp in nwn is stacked, right? I mean, the game was never really designed for pvp (the pvp setting ONLY means that AoE spells can or cant affect party members). Here comes my patented response to this sort of ridiculous give and take: yes, you told us about the server, fine. WHAT DO YOU LIKE? HOW DO YOU PLAY? The reality is, no one can predict that. Thax would have no problems with a druid, while i would stink up the place with his exact build. I play clerics, but i have seen others play my builds and not even come close the same effectiveness (we were in party together pvm). There are MANY all around builds. It isnt that build, it is you that you need to settle on. If you are having troubles, you need to spend time playin and learning. THen look through the guild to find something that meets YOUR liking and tweak that build to your style.
The BEST all around build (to answer the ot) is a cleric. Cleric/pm, cleric/rdd, cleric/cot what ever you want. The cleric has something for EVERY situation. i am sure thax can argue for druids.
IT is realy futile to continue to ask for help then post things like this when you maybe dont like a druid9/monk! This post has become no more nor less than a "what is the uberest build so i dont have to do anything and i can be 'leeeet (or however the noobs do it)."
sorry for the rant, but you were given lots of ideas, now the work is up to YOU! Shocking isnt it?
I'm a heavy Cleric playing guy myself but again dispells comes in both scroll and rod forms, you might be able to trick someone if you dont use stoneskin or spell resistance but I doubt most wont examine you before they decide to throw out some dispell.
I'm not looking for uber, anything jack of all trades is far from it, if I wanted to make a bard/rdd/pm and just run around bored out of my mind I would have. As for stonehold it is on the no spamming list, but you can also catch your allies in it which they wont like. I guess I just need to keep building and rebuilding till something works.
You can't play Neverwinter Nights if so many things are banned, variety goes to hell. I've never been in an environment where you level up through PvP, it sounds quite challenging and unfair.
You should play a Cleric with Plant Domain and Travel Domain (or team up with another Cleric, Druid or Wizard) and stack up Slow + Creeping Doom, it's a fabulous combination for Capture the Flag. I once played CtF against a team that knew how to handle a combination of Slow + Web + Creeping Doom and we got completely owned. _________________ "My name is Thaxll'ssyllia, but you simians may refer to me merely as "Sir", if you prefer a less... syllable intensive workout."
Edwin Odesseiron - Baldur's Gate II: Shadows of Amn
Edited By Thaxll'ssyllia on 01/28/09 23:12
Everyone apparently has dispel wands/scrolls, remember?
You can't play Neverwinter Nights if so many things are banned, variety goes to hell. I've never been in an environment where you level up through PvP, it sounds quite challenging and unfair.
AW is incredibly easy to level up on. IIRC you don't even have to fight anyone, you get XP whenever your team gets a kill or steals the flag - just hide in the corner until you get some levels _________________ Ghaash agh akūl - Nazgūl skoiz Mirdautas vras! Karn ghaamp agh nūt Shaut Manwe quiinubat gukh
Summoning - Mirdautas Vras
To be fair, if you're trying to make anything RESEMBLING a balanced situation in NWN, a server completely dedicated to PvP would be the best spot. No worries about messing up PvE stuff.
And on such a server, reducing the various stun/immobilizing/etc effects that can last for 240 seconds is probably a good idea. Not sure if eliminating knockdown spam is a good thing. Limiting death spell spam makes it harder to abuse auto-fail, I suppose.
*shrug*
I played on this server a while, and levelling is automatic you know, just like finn says. Also, this is a group PvP server, almost any build goes. Pick your fights for crying out loud, it's not even difficult.
I played first a Fighter10/SD1/Rogue29 build, dual-wielding in the first round, switching to shield or running until I could rehide. The build worked very well. 15d6 sneak attack take you a long way to get through Epic Warding you know. Let a Paladin Holysword your weapon. (It worked before 1.69 at least) Attack a fully buffed caster which is busy f.ex., or when you fight buffed Clerics. You'll take some hits from Acid sheath, but once he's debuffed, SA him to the beyond. The server has quite a few AAs too. Good PvP builds, but bad against monks, and against builds like this one. They rarely have enough detection skills, and lacks uncanny dodge while being DEX based. It has it's fair share of Devcritters. This build eats most of those. Oh, and if you can, use set traps a lot. It annoys the hell outta everyone.
I also tried with a cleric build, one Cleric/Monk(It's too damn powerful, dude), Wizard/Palemaster. A smiter build. (You buff up, enter the arena, grab a few kills, goes back to resting area). You'll get tons of hate you tells though. One BoE Ranger/fighter/WM, the one I posted. I tell you, if you stay focused and keep paying attention to your enemies, you will do well with almost any build, that's the beauty of Grouped PvP arenas. Keep away from terrifying Rage auras though. High level Barbarians run around to paralyze lower level builds, so their own low levels can get easy kills.
The server also let's you relevel for free, whenever you want. which let's you f.ex. grab HiPS at level 8, then move it to epic later to preserve BAB.
Good luck. But like Finn said, your side will grant you XP with every kill and capture. _________________ We are sons of Odin, and the fire that we burn inside is the legacy of warrior-kings who reign above in the sky I will lead the charge, my sword into the wind Sons of Odin fights to die and live again
You can't play Neverwinter Nights if so many things are banned, variety goes to hell. I've never been in an environment where you level up through PvP, it sounds quite challenging and unfair.
The server really doesn't ban anything IMO, except spamming certain attacks. Which is fair enough. KD f.ex. isn't really meant to do damage. Dev crit goes, all spells are go, all feats are go, all builds are go. BUT, spells that can affect your buddies does, it's a full PvP setting you know. Honestly? It's the best PvP server I've played. PvP-only works much better for PvP than a regular PW. Gruop PvP with high level bards will make everyone on your side you very best friend too. _________________ We are sons of Odin, and the fire that we burn inside is the legacy of warrior-kings who reign above in the sky I will lead the charge, my sword into the wind Sons of Odin fights to die and live again
Tbh, BoW > AW. And I played on both servers.
Quote: by Grimnir77 The server also let's you relevel for free, whenever you want. which let's you f.ex. grab HiPS at level 8, then move it to epic later to preserve BAB.
Well, that sounds very nice.
It sounds like a totally different place the way you describe it Grim, now I'm confused about how Vincent Ryans says he can't use a Dwarven Defender or a Druid, I just don't get this stuff. I'm out of this topic, those who have played there should be better at giving advice. _________________ "My name is Thaxll'ssyllia, but you simians may refer to me merely as "Sir", if you prefer a less... syllable intensive workout."
Edwin Odesseiron - Baldur's Gate II: Shadows of Amn
Quote: Posted 01/30/09 00:42 (GMT) -- Restos_
Tbh, BoW > AW. And I played on both servers.
Yeah, BoW is pretty nifty. It is MUCH more refined.
But AW is good for a change.
To OP: Just make a rogue, that's what I have. At level 11 I could kill everyone in my range with a KD and a few sneak attacks. Never had trouble.
Quote: Posted 01/27/09 01:08 (GMT) -- Vincent Ryans
Well, if you want to capture the flag, it sounds to me like a pure monk might be the way to go (or monk 39/ SD1). Go dex based, use your bonus feats for Armor Skin and Imp SR, general feats for Great Dex. You'll end up with high AC, high SR, high Hide/MS, and a LOT of speed (if you want to really max the speed, take 1 level Barb as well). TM
Interesting idea but monk speed is supposedly taken away when you have the flag, granted your slower but still anyone without monk/barb levels wont be able to catch you, it decreases AC as well though I'm not sure how much depending on your build so AA's and mages would still get a good shot at taking you down.
I have to comment on this. The build described won't be touched by mages. The SR is too high, and even if you don't take ISR feats, mages on this server tends to be Palemasters, or they might risk an unlucky DevCrit. It's group PvP, Bigbys can't save you.
Archers won't exactly fare too good either. A monk39 has 50% concealment which makes half of all shots miss you. Then the first hit is then deflected. You'll easily run across the entire field with the flag a couple of times before dying. If you're bad enough too get Monk35/SD5, you can possibly get epic dodge too. The map will probably end before a mage or archer can kill you. There are pure mages around, but not many. And even they'll have a hard time targetting someone moving with that Monk speed. There are enough allies who will haste you too. _________________ I see the fear you have inside, you can run but never hide. I will hunt you down and tear you limb from limb.
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