Ok this might be "outside the box" for some of you. I'm looking to max out AB and AC on the Iron Golem form "Construct Shape".

Bonus is your stats will start at:

Str 6
Dex 16
Con 14
Wis 22
Int 14
Cha 6

AND! you will get an extra 12 ability points at lvl 40 to go to Dex or Wisdom. (Dex most likely since I'm looking for high AB) You want AC? take a level of Monk and lots of Wisdom, you already need plenty wisdom for the iron shape and Monk's Wisdom AC won't be lost when caught flat-footed. You want AB? take any high BAB class pre-epic, but you can't do both at the same time.

A good amount of Druid levels also help to raise AC, a high level Owl's Insight and Barkskin work nicely and for a very long duration. So I'd recommend something like a Druid 24 / Shifter 13 / Monk 3.

Quote: 
Bonus is your stats will start at:

Str 6
Dex 16
Con 14
Wis 22
Int 14
Cha 6

AND! you will get an extra 12 ability points at lvl 40 to go to Dex or Wisdom. (Dex most likely since I'm looking for high AB)

Ok, so you want it DEX based, I take Iron Golem won't override DEX. Starting with 16 you can easily get it to about 26 or so and that +12 will make it 38. I'm at a loss however, I assume starting with 22 WIS is a subrace bonus but how do you get +12 at level 40? Is it a bonus from your armor or base stat bonus?

The Iron Golem gets 33 Strength, which can be buffed with Druid's spells up to 45 (Empowered Bull's Strength, Extended Blood Frenzy and Extended Aura of Vitality), so I have some doubts if taking it DEX-based is really worth it.
_________________
"My name is Thaxll'ssyllia, but you simians may refer to me merely as "Sir", if you prefer a less... syllable intensive workout."

Edwin Odesseiron - Baldur's Gate II: Shadows of Amn

Edited By Thaxll'ssyllia on 07/15/09 18:04

the 12 exta abilities comes after lvl 40 in the form of Legendary Levels.

Iron golem overides dex and weapon fineses ?

So no matter how much I raise Dex with weapon finesse feat, the attack bonus doesn't increase the Iron Golems AB?

Would Str increase the iron golems AB?

In NWNwiki is says this:

Iron golem:

Can breathe poison gas. Failing the first DC 17 fortitude save inflicts 2d2 constitution damage; failing the second is death.

Off-hand weapon and bracer/gauntlet/glove properties never merge.

How do you activiate the poison gas breath?

And since off-hand weapon and bracer/gauntlet/glove never merge should I then just put enchantment and damage bonuses on main weapon alone?

I apologize for the questions, I'm really at a lose with shifter/druid shapes. I've never built any for the most part. (I tried a few long ago but couldn't figure out what worked)

Edited By Cainsdefeat on 07/15/09 19:24

Ok update:

I logged into the server and read up on druid/shifter changes.

Seems there was a new change I wasn't aware of, "properties from gloves will be added to your shape. (If no weapon equiped).

So from what I know so far.

1. Armor, Helm, and Shield merge. (And gloves because of server change)
2. Weapon Finesse works with unarmed shapes.
3. Epic Prowess Helps AB shifted by 1.

Question : In NWNwiki says that for the Iron Golem the Items merge (Items are both ring slots, amulet slot, cloak slot, boots slot, and belt slot.)
So does this mean anything on these merge, like Fort saves, abilities boost etc. Bump.
Quote: Posted 07/15/09 19:00 (GMT) -- Cainsdefeat

the 12 exta abilities comes after lvl 40 in the form of Legendary Levels.

Iron golem overides dex and weapon fineses ?

So no matter how much I raise Dex with weapon finesse feat, the attack bonus doesn't increase the Iron Golems AB?

Would Str increase the iron golems AB?


Yes. No

WHen you shift, stats are OVERWRITTEN, and others arent. Dex is one that is rarely done (kobald may be one). What this means is, you can pump the snot out of str, all the way to 28 (assume all 10 go to str), but the Iron golem, with 33 just replaces your 28 with 33. You dont add 10 to iron gol.

WIth the wisdom reqd for Iron gol, your dex WONT be higher than 33 (infact, it takes a pure dexer to get to 33 normally!), so you will loose out to the 33 str of the gol. So you waste all those stats and feats IF you use gr dex.

In my experience, using the non-dragon shapes is a really cool idea. I did one or 2 many years ago. The one drawback though is the environment. If you look at my old builds, i did an epic drow shaped shifter. It was a mighty nice creation for the time. In the pw i played, and it WASNT high magic (+7 was the highest ever found), with bonus to str and enchantment, my normal form outstriped my epic drow form! I felt cheated. So, ***fters without dragon are, in only my opinion, based for low magic worlds.

With all this, is it worth the energy to make a strength based Iron Golem shifter that may not be as strong when you start adding gear? I'd do it (in my early days) for the experience of doing it. Make it the best you can. i would do a search on pulse' engine for shifters though. It seems that someone did an idea similar to this a few years ago.

Now, if you wanted dex, what WOULD be cool is to go dex 25 in elf or halfer and get Epic dodge WITH druid/shifter (maybe rogue?). Now you have a dodging, imm to crit monster! Just a thought.
_________________
Quote: Posted 06/23/04 21:16 (GMT) -- Anuis

Suolucider, Blitz 04, avado, Quisition, Boourns, ... welcome to the guild! Anuis


Makes me feel OOLD!!
Quote: Posted 07/15/09 19:00 (GMT) -- Cainsdefeat

the 12 exta abilities comes after lvl 40 in the form of Legendary Levels.

Iron golem overides dex and weapon fineses ?

So no matter how much I raise Dex with weapon finesse feat, the attack bonus doesn't increase the Iron Golems AB?

Would Str increase the iron golems AB?


Yes. No

WHen you shift, stats are OVERWRITTEN, and others arent. Dex is one that is rarely done (kobald may be one). What this means is, you can pump the snot out of str, all the way to 28 (assume all 10 go to str), but the Iron golem, with 33 just replaces your 28 with 33. You dont add 10 to iron gol.

WIth the wisdom reqd for Iron gol, your dex WONT be higher than 33 (infact, it takes a pure dexer to get to 33 normally!), so you will loose out to the 33 str of the gol. So you waste all those stats and feats IF you use gr dex.

In my experience, using the non-dragon shapes is a really cool idea. I did one or 2 many years ago. The one drawback though is the environment. If you look at my old builds, i did an epic drow shaped shifter. It was a mighty nice creation for the time. In the pw i played, and it WASNT high magic (+7 was the highest ever found), with bonus to str and enchantment, my normal form outstriped my epic drow form! I felt cheated. So, ***fters without dragon are, in only my opinion, based for low magic worlds.

With all this, is it worth the energy to make a strength based Iron Golem shifter that may not be as strong when you start adding gear? I'd do it (in my early days) for the experience of doing it. Make it the best you can. i would do a search on pulse' engine for shifters though. It seems that someone did an idea similar to this a few years ago.

Now, if you wanted dex, what WOULD be cool is to go dex 25 in elf or halfer and get Epic dodge WITH druid/shifter (maybe rogue?). Now you have a dodging, imm to crit monster! Just a thought.
_________________
Quote: Posted 06/23/04 21:16 (GMT) -- Anuis

Suolucider, Blitz 04, avado, Quisition, Boourns, ... welcome to the guild! Anuis


Makes me feel OOLD!! avado.

I want to be thorough, please.

Yes.No <<<--- (whats the yes to and whats the no to?) sorry bout the double post. Not sure why that happened. Maybe a mod can take one out.

What i meant by the Yes No is that you are correct and you arent! I thought i answered that, but..

No the dex isnt overridden in Iron GOl shape. NO, more str added WITHOUT items wont increase AB.

YES, no matter how much you raise dex you will not affect ab with finesse (unless you go over 33, and then you cant get iron gol).

In a world where you get +12 ontop of 40, i am not sure a shifter is worth the effort. It will probably be a high magic world and the shapes just dont have the kick for it.

hope that helps It's not that weapon finesse will not affect AB, rather, your AB is modified by the largest modifier, and if your STR score is bigger than your DEX score then why bother with Weapon Finesse?

There are other good variants, say, raise Charisma and take Blackguard or Paladin as your third class, you'll get great saving throws.

One thing that's certain is that you need to play the shift before anything else. Build it up in single player, start as level 40 if you wish and try a module or something, in-game experience usually works better than only suggestions, I can tell you what class split I'd use, why and how I use it, that doesn't mean you'll be me when you play it. I know how to build a shifter, but I don't know the details of the Iron Golem shape as I've never used it. What items merge, for example, is something that should be tested IMO. I can only suggest you to take a big amount of Druid levels to improve your buffs and add variety to your fighting options with spells. Monk will net the highest AC of all secondary classes. I'd say you should try the DEX version and see how it ends, then make the STR version and compare the stats, you'll get tested results in just a few minutes.
_________________
"My name is Thaxll'ssyllia, but you simians may refer to me merely as "Sir", if you prefer a less... syllable intensive workout."

Edwin Odesseiron - Baldur's Gate II: Shadows of Amn Thanks so much for all of your help guys. I have been building shifters and reading faqs about them for 2 weeks now. I didn't wanna go with the dragon form so I chose iron golem.