I finally figured it was time for me to try a rogue... I don't think I have done one or really looked at it. This time around, I went heavy instead of few levels of rogue and wanted to see what I can do with it.
Anyway, this is not official build, just merely an experiment. I would like to have some feedback on this.
NOTES I know that it's not well liked that the attributes ends at odd digit instead of even. But, I believe that's acceptable, at least for me. The reason is that I needed just enough to meet the requirement of Ambidexterity and have enough left for intelligence for a better skillset.
As for the number of level per classes, the reason behind this is to get most out of the number of attacks you can do. If you only took one level of SD and took one in Rogue, you would end up with 3 instead of 4. And yes, you could technically take another fighter to get 4, but there's no point of seventh fighter in my opinion.
Anyway, I tested this concept just for a bit. It seems that while doing sneak attacks, it's averaging around 110 or so per SA.
The advantages of this concept is that it has HiPS at earliest as possible while it also has pretty high SA in addition to devastating critical in its arsenal.
Ah, almost forgot one thing... The reason that all of epic is taken as rogue is that I wanted to get all ISA I-X while taking DC and Improved Evasion (unless a better alternative is suggested?).
There is few things that is disadvantage about this is that it has pretty crappy saves and low HP which can be solved if you can get hands on scrolls.
In addition to choice of weapon, you could switch from rapiers to scimitars. Should not make any difference. In my case, I went scimitar instead of rapier.
/NOTES
That's all for now... Any suggestions?
Anuis _________________ - Epic Character Builders Guild
- Life is but a dream...
- I know more than I am letting on...
-I think, Therefore I am.
Edited By Anuis on 07/24/09 06:09
A dev crit ROGUE!! LOL. I did something like that with a warhammer, the great SPLAT or something. This is a different idea than what we talked about. Too bad you cant get ED too _________________
Quote: Posted 06/23/04 21:16 (GMT) -- Anuis
Suolucider, Blitz 04, avado, Quisition, Boourns, ... welcome to the guild! Anuis
Makes me feel OOLD!!
Quote: Posted 07/24/09 22:06 (GMT) -- avado
A dev crit ROGUE!! LOL. I did something like that with a warhammer, the great SPLAT or something. This is a different idea than what we talked about. Too bad you cant get ED too
Actually, the idea I mentioned is not this one. This one is more focused on rogue class than others.
Anuis _________________ - Epic Character Builders Guild
- Life is but a dream...
- I know more than I am letting on...
-I think, Therefore I am.
with your sneek attack doing so much damage mabey knockdown and improved knock down would be going after if your fighting monsters or players with high fort saves.
Quote: Posted 07/26/09 20:54 (GMT) -- Merek46
with your sneek attack doing so much damage mabey knockdown and improved knock down would be going after if your fighting monsters or players with high fort saves.
Well, there is not much room of switching out any feats per se. The only feat that could be exchanged is Blind Fight. I prefer blind fight over knockdown. But that feat can be changed out to that if anyone desires that.
Although I think some of feats can be moved around to get better playability. Any suggestion on that is welcome.
Anuis _________________ - Epic Character Builders Guild
- Life is but a dream...
- I know more than I am letting on...
-I think, Therefore I am.
Any reason you're not going 31 rogue/1 SD/8 fighter?
"As for the number of level per classes, the reason behind this is to get most out of the number of attacks you can do. If you only took one level of SD and took one in Rogue, you would end up with 3 instead of 4. And yes, you could technically take another fighter to get 4, but there's no point of seventh fighter in my opinion."
7th level of fighter means the only fighter level in epic is an immediate feat. Use the feat to take epic weapon specialization, which is better than ISA X (4 constant damage that is multipled on crits versus 3.5 damage which only works against certain foes and isn't multiplied on crits).
Any reason you're not going 31 rogue/1 SD/8 fighter?
I didn't think of doing it that way. I was more focused on obtaining all ISA I-X feats which I came to with the number of each classes. But further reason is below...
Quote: 7th level of fighter means the only fighter level in epic is an immediate feat. Use the feat to take epic weapon specialization, which is better than ISA X (4 constant damage that is multipled on crits versus 3.5 damage which only works against certain foes and isn't multiplied on crits).
You can't take Epic Weapon Specialization unless you have taken Epic Weapon Focus. Which this build do not have. This is why I didn't go 31 R/1 SD/8 F. Which means you lose out on another ISA, reducing the damage output per SA by 12 in total. But, EWS does stack with WS, which gives you +6 damage per attack.
I am not expert on the rogue sneak attacks... So, I have question regarding that. Does the SA use the damage you receive from the weapon specialization? If this is the case, then the alternative you offered would be ideal since you essentially only lose 6 damage.
Anuis _________________ - Epic Character Builders Guild
- Life is but a dream...
- I know more than I am letting on...
-I think, Therefore I am.
Quote: Posted 07/28/09 01:03 (GMT) -- Anuis
You can't take Epic Weapon Specialization unless you have taken Epic Weapon Focus. Which this build do not have. This is why I didn't go 31 R/1 SD/8 F. Which means you lose out on another ISA, reducing the damage output per SA by 12 in total. But, EWS does stack with WS, which gives you +6 damage per attack.
Ah, I assumed you had EWF, sorry. And yes, it stacks, so taking EWS is an additional 4 damage per hit.
Quote: I am not expert on the rogue sneak attacks... So, I have question regarding that. Does the SA use the damage you receive from the weapon specialization? If this is the case, then the alternative you offered would be ideal since you essentially only lose 6 damage.
A sneak attack does 1d6 damage, or 3.5 extra damage on average. This is not multiplied in the case of a crit and does not apply to sneak or critical immune foes. If you add EWF/EWS, you lose 7 average sneak attack damage. You gain 2 AB and 4 constant damage. In other words, against a foe you can sneak attack, you're trading 3 damage per sneak attack for 2 extra AB and if you crit then you'll actually do 1 more damage with EWS than with 2 more improved sneak attacks. Against a sneak immune/crit immune foe, you're losing nothing and gaining 2 AB and 4 damage.
Here's the revision. [Build] Rogue(31), Shadowdancer(1), Fighter(8), Human
It has slightly more hitpoints and less skill points. Also, it has lost 1 Reflex save. In addition, the AB has increased by 2.
I have not tested this yet though. But it should perform better since I moved some of the feats around. Such as leaving the Great Cleave until later so you have ambidexterity and Two-Weapon Fighting early instead of waiting until 18 for TWF and ITWF.
Hopefully the change has improved the playability.
Feedback on the revision is welcome!
Anuis _________________ - Epic Character Builders Guild
- Life is but a dream...
- I know more than I am letting on...
-I think, Therefore I am.
I would go for mace as the weapon for Bludgeon dmg.
I would drop str to 16, upping Con for more survivability
The other option that is fun is when coming out of hiding is to use a 2 hander like great axe for the 1.5 multiplier to str dmg, switching to 2 weapons (or sword + board) as required. The AB loss for using a non preferred wpn is ok since many foes are flatfooted etc.
This is also why i like to include KD/IKD to deal with any casters, especially if they are wielding a small wpn.
The other change for me would be drop the extra sneak attacks, and stop at rogue 25ish, pumping more Ftr. If that amount of sneak doesnt do it for you with 2 weapons then usually i revert to other tactic. Ooooops. Different build now i recall Grizz posted a dwarf rog/ftr like this.
<edit> ps.. i am in awe that you are gracing this forum again.. long live nwn.
Edited By jumjones on 10/09/09 05:41
Quote: Posted 10/09/09 05:39 (GMT) -- jumjones
I would go for mace as the weapon for Bludgeon dmg.
Morningstar or Warhammer does better with a strength build.
Quote: Posted 10/09/09 05:39 (GMT) -- jumjones
<edit> ps.. i am in awe that you are gracing this forum again.. long live nwn.
I AGREE with this!! Anuis, i told you you ARE a Legend!! _________________
Quote: Posted 06/23/04 21:16 (GMT) -- Anuis
Suolucider, Blitz 04, avado, Quisition, Boourns, ... welcome to the guild! Anuis
Makes me feel OOLD!!
Quote: Posted 10/09/09 05:39 (GMT) -- jumjones
I would go for mace as the weapon for Bludgeon dmg.
I would drop str to 16, upping Con for more survivability
The other option that is fun is when coming out of hiding is to use a 2 hander like great axe for the 1.5 multiplier to str dmg, switching to 2 weapons (or sword + board) as required. The AB loss for using a non preferred wpn is ok since many foes are flatfooted etc.
This is also why i like to include KD/IKD to deal with any casters, especially if they are wielding a small wpn.
The other change for me would be drop the extra sneak attacks, and stop at rogue 25ish, pumping more Ftr. If that amount of sneak doesnt do it for you with 2 weapons then usually i revert to other tactic. Ooooops. Different build now i recall Grizz posted a dwarf rog/ftr like this.
<edit> ps.. i am in awe that you are gracing this forum again.. long live nwn.
The reason that I have STR that high at start is to get Dev Crit early as possible with Human as race and due to high Rogue layout and also to end as 28 STR.
Why? The reason is this.. if you are able to work in group and have decent amount of STR boost from items and whatnot.. and in conjunction with other casters that boost strength. You can get 40 STR as compared to 38.
I would have prefered to end with 30 but since I didn't take two extra fighter level in epic... But if that's what you want, you can alter that and only lose 1 ISA and 1 1d6 from Rogue levels. If you did that, you can end with 42 STR while boosted by items and spells.
By stopping rogue once reaching 25 in that class, you are losing out on quite an amount of damage from SA. 25 only has 13d6 as compared to 31 level which has 16d6. Also, you lose lots of ISA from this change since assuming that you take all epic except first two as rogue, you delay the ISA much later. You lose 2 ISA... you also delay Improved Evasion and Crippling Strike.
So.. I did a little math, the amount of damage at max is... 78(25) + 36(ISA) which is 114 dmg and 96(31) + 48(ISA) which is 144, that's 30 damage difference. I am too lazy at the moment to do the rest of the math concerning the attacks while hasted, etc. But I figure that is large number of dmg loss from SA.
I didn't do the KD and IKD because this build is tight with feats and it needs most of the listed feats. But if you can afford to lose more ISA, I would suggest two more level of fighter after level 8 to net those feats with right adjustments. But I wouldn't recommend it. Also the other reason is that IKD requires 13 intelligence which this does not have. It can get KD however.
Quote: Posted 10/09/09 13:03 (GMT) -- WhiZard
Quote: Posted 10/09/09 05:39 (GMT) -- jumjones
I would go for mace as the weapon for Bludgeon dmg.
Morningstar or Warhammer does better with a strength build.
I believe that the Morningstar cannot be equipped by off-hand. I am not sure about the Warhammer. I think the reason for that is it's the limitation of the NWN engine or due to no animation for such situation... can't recall at the moment.
Quote: Posted 10/09/09 20:12 (GMT) -- avado
Quote: Posted 10/09/09 05:39 (GMT) -- jumjones
<edit> ps.. i am in awe that you are gracing this forum again.. long live nwn.
I AGREE with this!! Anuis, i told you you ARE a Legend!!
Heh... thanks. I am getting old.. lol. My memory on NWN is fuzzy these days...
Anuis _________________ - Epic Character Builders Guild
- Life is but a dream...
- I know more than I am letting on...
-I think, Therefore I am.
Morningstar cannot go in the offhand, no. Warhammer would suffer the size penalty of -4 compared to -2.
Do you really want Dev Crit? Seems to me you could make better use of the feats. ISA X w/ Dev Crit reeks of putting all your eggs in one basket. I'd take EWF, EWS, KD, IKD, and something else and drop dev crit for redundancy. If they're sneakable, they're goin' down. It might take the whole round instead of the first hit, but you can set them up for sneaks better, hit more often, do a bit more damage, and be in better shape against those crit/sneak immunes.
Quote: Posted 10/10/09 04:58 (GMT) -- onion eater
Do you really want Dev Crit? Seems to me you could make better use of the feats. ISA X w/ Dev Crit reeks of putting all your eggs in one basket. I'd take EWF, EWS, KD, IKD, and something else and drop dev crit for redundancy. If they're sneakable, they're goin' down. It might take the whole round instead of the first hit, but you can set them up for sneaks better, hit more often, do a bit more damage, and be in better shape against those crit/sneak immunes.
The revision does not have ISA X. It only gets up to ISA VIII. Again, the revision does not have enough intelligence to get IKD, only KD.
And the reasoning behind having Dev Crit is to take down those in group quickly as possible if they fail their fortitude throw. This is especially useful against wizards in group if they are caught off-guard.
The throw is as follow... the dc is done with level 30 and 40 with both modified and unmodified strength.
10 + 30*.5 + 7(25 STR unmodified) = 32 DC 10 + 30*.5 + 13(37 STR modified) = 38 DC 10 + 40*.5 + 9(28 STR unmodifed) = 39 DC 10 + 40*.5 + 15(40 STR modifed) = 45 DC
I would guess that many would be hard pressed to beat that DC. Any low fort characters will die instantly and this would allow the character to deal with those more difficult by employing it's HiPs and use SA if it's possible.
Anuis _________________ - Epic Character Builders Guild
- Life is but a dream...
- I know more than I am letting on...
-I think, Therefore I am.
I'm just sayin', w/ that sweet SA, you could take down groups very quickly anyways (especially those low HP mages...). Drop a darkness on their butts and you're golden. I'm not saying Dev Crit is totally useless or anything, but I do think it's entirely too much of an advantage to make what is already a strength (and a significant one), yet more deadly.
Anuis and i share similar playing styles! The faster they die, the more xp per hour you generate and the more carnage you can get away with before real life gets in the way!! If only we had played together... Me thinks I was meant to be a barbarian (like Anuis), but somehow got lured to the darkside _________________
Quote: Posted 06/23/04 21:16 (GMT) -- Anuis
Suolucider, Blitz 04, avado, Quisition, Boourns, ... welcome to the guild! Anuis
