I am wanting to make a pure druid build to play through OC and then take it to lvl 40 (suggestions on mods an/or suitable PWs to do that are welcome). My self-imposed conditions are as follows: druid 40 human skill: persuade no necromancy spells
For RP purposes I decided that she is from The Vast, worshipping Chauntea, and of neutral good alignment with a boar as a companion. I have never made any build so please do be to harsh. Here it is
It seems that with the main way of solving conflicts being Persuade and avoiding necromancy spells she will be kind of "peaceful" and so her favourite school will be abjuration making her more of a support character. Still I hope she will be able to hold her own. In a fight she would hopefully be the first to act, buffing herself and companion/henchmen, then using spells as appropriate for the situation and finally shapechanging for melee. Please let me know what you think. Thanks _________________ Conservatism is suspicious of thinking, because thinking on the whole leads to wrong conclusions, unless you think very, very hard. - (Roger Scruton)
Feat wise, you don't have Blind Fight. That's needed. I'd drop Luck of Heroes for Expertise and drop Improved Initiative for Toughness. Switch Superior Initiative with Epic Prowess. I'd also drop either Dex or Str to 8 and raise Con to 14.
If you're going through the OC and the like, you'll have access to Haste...Autoquicken is a complete waste.
I think dropping Thug and Quicken Spell for Spell Focus and Greater Spell Focus in something would be a good idea, and Switching Autoquicken I through III for Epic Spell Focus and two more Great Wisdoms.
Feat wise, you don't have Blind Fight. That's needed.
Thanks. I thought that True Seeing spell would do the trick. Do you think that is not good enough?
Quote:
I'd drop Luck of Heroes for Expertise
Do you mean taking Expertise at Lvl 1 instead 12?
Quote: and drop Improved Initiative for Toughness. Switch Superior Initiative with Epic Prowess. I'd also drop either Dex or Str to 8 and raise Con to 14.
Which one do you think is better to drop Dex or Str?
Quote: If you're going through the OC and the like, you'll have access to Haste...Autoquicken is a complete waste.
I think dropping Thug and Quicken Spell for Spell Focus and Greater Spell Focus in something would be a good idea, and Switching Autoquicken I through III for Epic Spell Focus and two more Great Wisdoms.
Thanks. I can get more Great Wisdoms no problem .
I thought she would be an "abjuration" druid (for RP purpose) so wouldn't taking spell focus in anything else be sort of "non RP"?
Thanks again for your suggestions.
Edit: Toughness is good, however Epic Prowess suggests martial training, so RP wise I am not sure I can do that. _________________ Conservatism is suspicious of thinking, because thinking on the whole leads to wrong conclusions, unless you think very, very hard. - (Roger Scruton)
Edited By gsle on 11/09/09 07:18
Quote: Posted 11/09/09 07:13 (GMT) -- gsle
Thanks. I thought that True Seeing spell would do the trick. Do you think that is not good enough?
True Seeing doesn't negate concealment from Self-Concealment and Improved Invisibility, which is the issue.
Quote: Do you mean taking Expertise at Lvl 1 instead 12?
If you want, sure.
Quote: Which one do you think is better to drop Dex or Str?
Normally I'd say Charisma but I think you want that for "RP reasons," right? Probably strength.
Quote: I thought she would be an "abjuration" druid (for RP purpose) so wouldn't taking spell focus in anything else be sort of "non RP"?
Depends upon what you mean by "using spells appropriate to the situation."
Quote: Edit: Toughness is good, however Epic Prowess suggests martial training, so RP wise I am not sure I can do that.
"The character's skill at combat grows and he gains a +1 bonus to all attacks."
Doesn't look like martial training to me, looks like you've fought enough while shifted that you get better at attacking...sort of like being at home in the wild with your druid training gives you an AB bonus there.
Thanks. I thought that True Seeing spell would do the trick. Do you think that is not good enough?
True Seeing doesn't negate concealment from Self-Concealment and Improved Invisibility, which is the issue.
Technically it is a reroll for concealment that blind fight provides (which effectively squares the concealment, but does not negate it). It is attacker miss chance that is completely negated by blind fight.
Edited By WhiZard on 11/09/09 15:00
Quote: Posted 11/09/09 14:59 (GMT) -- WhiZard
Technically it is a reroll for concealment that blind fight provides (which effectively squares the concealment, but does not negate it). It is attacker miss chance that is completely negated by blind fight.
I said True Seeing didn't negate it
Blind Fight negates the AB bonus against you, I believe, by enemies as well.
For 50% concealment, squaring it means it becomes only 25% concealment, aka you hit 50% more often (for his benefit, not yours Whizard ).
Read Thax' guide on the druid for all sorts of good ideas.
Quote: Normally I'd say Charisma but I think you want that for "RP reasons," right? Probably strength.
Indeed, Charisma is importants to me. Yes, I thought strenght as well. Thanks.
Quote: I thought she would be an "abjuration" druid (for RP purpose) so wouldn't taking spell focus in anything else be sort of "non RP"?
Quote: Depends upon what you mean by "using spells appropriate to the situation."
Well, the spell focus seems to me that you are particulary well trained in using spells of a certain school of magic, which in her case would be abjuration. Of course she would use other spells (except necromancy) as well, such as AoE, damage, heal and so on. But if she is well trained in any school it is abjuration, however spell focus in this school seems pointless for a druid otherwise I would take it.
Quote:
"The character's skill at combat grows and he gains a +1 bonus to all attacks."
Doesn't look like martial training to me, looks like you've fought enough while shifted that you get better at attacking...sort of like being at home in the wild with your druid training gives you an AB bonus there.
OK, that sounds good. Thanks
Quote: Read Thax' guide on the druid for all sorts of good ideas.
Yes, I did read that, it's very useful. Thanks
Quote: Blind Fight negates the AB bonus against you, I believe, by enemies as well.
For 50% concealment, squaring it means it becomes only 25% concealment, aka you hit 50% more often (for his benefit, not yours Whizard ).
Her benefit. Thanks _________________ Conservatism is suspicious of thinking, because thinking on the whole leads to wrong conclusions, unless you think very, very hard. - (Roger Scruton)
Edited By gsle on 11/09/09 21:46
Well, my first suggestion would be to clean your build spread, please don't write the innate class bonuses on every level. I find it hard to read with all that Wild Shape and Elemental Wild Shape feats written in there, we all know them, it's of no use to write them.
Well, the big points have been made, do what Magical Master said about the feats.
I don't really get what you mean about Abjuration spells. I mean, without Monk, even though the shifts are good, spells are your biggest power by far, given your AC won't be anything amazing as a pure Druid. You say you don't want Necromancy, and that's ok, since Druids get close to no Necromancy spells, but you're definitely strongest at Conjuration and Evocation, just check your spellbook. Besides from Druids having very few, abjuration spells have no need and get no real benefit from having Spell Focus, so I'll repeat what I said in my guide: take Conjuration, you'll like it.
Now, taking Spell Focus in non-abjuration schools doesn't mean you're not RPing well, it means your character got brains. Having brains on a character with decent Intelligence and Wisdom score is fine RP in my book. _________________ "My name is Thaxll'ssyllia, but you simians may refer to me merely as "Sir", if you prefer a less... syllable intensive workout."
Edwin Odesseiron - Baldur's Gate II: Shadows of Amn
Well, my first suggestion would be to clean your build spread, please don't write the innate class bonuses on every level. I find it hard to read with all that Wild Shape and Elemental Wild Shape feats written in there, we all know them, it's of no use to write them.
Thanks for your advice. I apologise for the build spread and how I posted it, next time it will be better.
Quote: I don't really get what you mean about Abjuration spells. I mean, without Monk, even though the shifts are good, spells are your biggest power by far, given your AC won't be anything amazing as a pure Druid. You say you don't want Necromancy, and that's ok, since Druids get close to no Necromancy spells, but you're definitely strongest at Conjuration and Evocation, just check your spellbook. Besides from Druids having very few, abjuration spells have no need and get no real benefit from having Spell Focus, so I'll repeat what I said in my guide: take Conjuration, you'll like it.
I do realise abjuration is not the strongest school for druid, it is just my puny attempt at RPing a Damaran character. From races of Faerun ... spells that assist survival in a harsh climate are common ... Commonly favored spells include ... protection from elements, ... resist elements.
Quote: Now, taking Spell Focus in non-abjuration schools doesn't mean you're not RPing well, it means your character got brains. Having brains on a character with decent Intelligence and Wisdom score is fine RP in my book.
Thanks. How do you think Spell Focus is obtained in "reality"? Do you get better because you are casting certain spells more often? Or does your teacher tell you tricks about a certain school of magic which improves the save DC?
Edit typos. _________________ Conservatism is suspicious of thinking, because thinking on the whole leads to wrong conclusions, unless you think very, very hard. - (Roger Scruton)
Edited By gsle on 11/09/09 23:38
I think you really need dragon shape in this build. You dont get 30 wis until LATE anyway, so taking it then is very normal and natural, in my view. WIthout it, i dont know if i would consider this a pure druid build as druids are all about shifting, esp since you are limiting spells.
Well, I don't like to get "in reality" when discussing a game, but the way I envision it (still not reality) is more or less that you made further studies in a certain school. It's like getting a master degree in spellcasting _________________ "My name is Thaxll'ssyllia, but you simians may refer to me merely as "Sir", if you prefer a less... syllable intensive workout."
Edwin Odesseiron - Baldur's Gate II: Shadows of Amn
Edited By Thaxll'ssyllia on 11/10/09 05:18
Quote: Posted 11/10/09 02:09 (GMT) -- avado
I think you really need dragon shape in this build.
Damn, I didn't even notice this >.<
Yeah...get it.
Quote: Posted 11/09/09 06:14 (GMT) -- gsle
It seems that with the main way of solving conflicts being Persuade and avoiding necromancy spells she will be kind of "peaceful" ...
K, i dont get this. You are playing th OC which is pretty much designed for the Recommend button! You choose to take feats that are wasteful, which is your perogative, but why ask for help? Quicken is a waste of 1 feat, never mind 4! I wonder HOW you are gonna play this druid, as a caster or shifted?
Remember, Druids are NOT lawful Good! Fighting IS ok! Being nice is OK! Being EVIL IS TOO!! Being pure druid means you have to RP the alignment too! Anything that shifts to a Bear wouldnt be all 'I cant use necro cuz it isnt peaceful" or "Persuade is how i deal with others" .. please! Have you ever cast a high DC wail of banshee?? I tell you, I have! IT was the most relaxing and peaceful times in my playing career after sending 10 baddies back to where they came from with that spell! Very quiet and peaceful!
Maybe, paladin is more to your temperment? I remember when i started playing i always had to be lawful good! WHat a sad thing to be! Druids cannot ever be lawful good! I think you should read alot of Thax' posts here to get an idea of what a druid would be like. In my mind, he opitimizes the druid! One moment he's your best friend and is great to talk with. The next, he's ripping at the heart of someone who looked at him cock-eyed! A pure druid! _________________
Quote: -- Posted by Kail Pendragon
Being hyperbolic is an integral part of Avado's being
Thanks for all your feedback.
Quote: You choose to take feats that are wasteful, which is your perogative, but why ask for help?
Because I know that some feats are "wasteful" and I don't want a character that is so hard to play that it is not fun anymore.
Quote: Quicken is a waste of 1 feat, never mind 4!
That's why I'll drop them.
Quote: I wonder HOW you are gonna play this druid, as a caster or shifted?
Initially I thought she will be a caster but perhaps I'll change the build to be a shifter. What do you think about this? Initial stats: Str: 8 Dex: 14 Con: 14 Wis: 16 Int: 10 Cha: 14
Dropping Extend Spell, Quicken Spell, Expertise, Improved Expertise for Dodge, Mobility, Improved Critical: Unarmed, Spring Attack and in Epic dropping Autoquicken and few Great Wisdom feats for the four Epic Spells (and Dragon Shape of course)? And dropping Heal and Lore skills.
So she would be a shifting druid with Dragon Shape. Would it still work without any monk levels?
Quote: Remember, Druids are NOT lawful Good! Fighting IS ok! Being nice is OK! Being EVIL IS TOO!! Being pure druid means you have to RP the alignment too! Anything that shifts to a Bear wouldnt be all 'I cant use necro cuz it isnt peaceful" or "Persuade is how i deal with others" .. please!
Perhaps I have not explain it well. I don't think that preference for not taking life is Lawful, for this character it is a concept of Good. As far as law is concerned she remains neutral. She won't use necro because she is from a region they don't like necromancy. Not for "peacefullness". Sorry for the confusion.
Quote:
Have you ever cast a high DC wail of banshee?? I tell you, I have! IT was the most relaxing and peaceful times in my playing career after sending 10 baddies back to where they came from with that spell! Very quiet and peaceful!
I don't think I have.
Quote: Maybe, paladin is more to your temperment?
May be. My first character in OC was a neutral evil wizard/druid/palemaster and was fun to play, although quite challenging due to a poor feat selection. That's why I am asking an advice here. I am not looking for a best build ever but I don't want it to be so bad that it becomes unplayable. Thanks again for your feedback. I really appreciate it! _________________ Conservatism is suspicious of thinking, because thinking on the whole leads to wrong conclusions, unless you think very, very hard. - (Roger Scruton)
Edited By gsle on 11/10/09 21:10
Quote: Posted 11/10/09 21:07 (GMT) -- gsle
Because I know that some feats are "wasteful" and I don't want a character that is so hard to play that it is not fun anymore.
Str: 8 Dex: 14 Con: 14 Wis: 16 Int: 10 Cha: 14
Dropping Extend Spell, Quicken Spell, Expertise, Improved Expertise for Dodge, Mobility, Improved Critical: Unarmed, Spring Attack and in Epic dropping Autoquicken and few Great Wisdom feats for the four Epic Spells (and Dragon Shape of course)?
I got the impression that 1) you want to make a Druid, 2) caster type build.
For casters, dodge, mob, sa are not the smartest ideas. You NEED spellbook management! If i were you, i would take extend, silent, empower AND max (get rid of ic unarm cuz unless i am mistaken, shapes are CREATURE, not unarmed). That gives you the ability to be adaptive to ANY situation, spell wise.
14 charisma! Are you kidding me? Please RP this: Pure druid means she spends all her time with nature. Man is the enemy to nature YET, somehow, she is able to remain charismatic with no interaction with humans? I dont see it AND thats 6 points wasted! Also, Thax teaches that COn is over written, so do you need 14? Another 2 points! Now you can have 18 wis to start, which is what i would start a druid with.
You came to us for help. This is what I would do. I tend to make powerful characters that are EASY to play (not sure where you got the idea that power is hard to play). You have to exploit the STRENGTHS of the character, otherwise, use the recommend button!
In the end, the most important thing isnt what we suggest. IT is HOW DO YOU PLAY? What makes YOU happy? Taking dod-sa may be the craziest thing for you cuz you like to see them miss you as you run through the packs of monsters! Me, i would rather make a character that takes out the pack before they get to me. That's where my suggestions come from.
One last thing... gr wisdom 10, which is VERY easy to hit with this build (if my math is correct), is much more important than Epic spells! Oh, and 1 monk lv at 39 is VERY powerful! So much so, that you would feel dirty for doing it! _________________
I agree with avado, Storm of Vengeance rocks, it stuns great, it can deal heavy damage over time, and Evasion doesn't work against it, you should try it in your strategy as well, too bad it's conjura
Thanks.
Quote: Posted 11/11/09 00:50 (GMT) -- avado
I got the impression that 1) you want to make a Druid, 2) caster type build.
Just druid. The initial build was a caster but I don't mind changing it to a shifter type since you said that druids are all about shifting
Quote: For casters, dodge, mob, sa are not the smartest ideas. You NEED spellbook management! If i were you, i would take extend, silent, empower AND max (get rid of ic unarm cuz unless i am mistaken, shapes are CREATURE, not unarmed). That gives you the ability to be adaptive to ANY situation, spell wise.
Right, would those feats be useless if I wanted her to be a "shifter type"? I was under impression that IC: unarmed worked while shifted, happy to get rid of it if it doesn't.
Quote: 14 charisma! Are you kidding me? Please RP this: Pure druid means she spends all her time with nature. Man is the enemy to nature YET, somehow, she is able to remain charismatic with no interaction with humans?
I don't have a trouble seeing her having Cha 14. Just because she lives in harmony with nature doesn't mean she doesn't interact with people. I have actually thought about RPing Cha 14 for her. Perhaps she lives near a small village that doesn't even have a priest so she is the wises person around to whom people turn for advice (and healing), so she is interacting with others quite often.
Quote: Also, Thax teaches that COn is over written, so do you need 14? Another 2 points! Now you can have 18 wis to start, which is what i would start a druid with.
True, but perhaps for a benefit of more HP? Happy to drop it down though.
Quote: (not sure where you got the idea that power is hard to play).
Not sure where you got the idea that I got the idea that power is hard to play. Sorry if I somehow made you believe that I believe that.
Quote: In the end, the most important thing isnt what we suggest. IT is HOW DO YOU PLAY? What makes YOU happy? Taking dod-sa may be the craziest thing for you cuz you like to see them miss you as you run through the packs of monsters! Me, i would rather make a character that takes out the pack before they get to me. That's where my suggestions come from.
I am not an experienced player so either caster or shifter will make me happy. The dod-sa line was for the shifter type build so them miss you as you run through the packs of monsters shifted!
Quote: One last thing... gr wisdom 10, which is VERY easy to hit with this build (if my math is correct), is much more important than Epic spells!
If I wanted her to shift primarily would that still be true? I mean you can't cast spells while shifted but you can cast Epic Spells.
Quote: Oh, and 1 monk lv at 39 is VERY powerful! So much so, that you would feel dirty for doing it!
I know.
Thanks heaps. I appreciate your time.
Edited typos. _________________ Conservatism is suspicious of thinking, because thinking on the whole leads to wrong conclusions, unless you think very, very hard. - (Roger Scruton)
Edited By gsle on 11/11/09 01:47
Quote: Posted 11/11/09 01:41 (GMT) -- gsle
Thanks. Just druid. The initial build was a caster but I don't mind changing it to a shifter type since you said that druids are all about shifting
Right, would those feats be useless if I wanted her to be a "shifter type"? I was under impression that IC: unarmed worked while shifted, happy to get rid of it if it doesn't.
I don't have a trouble seeing her having Cha 14. Just because she lives in harmony with nature doesn't mean she doesn't interact with people. I have actually thought about RPing Cha 14 for her. Perhaps she lives near a small village that doesn't even have a priest so she is the wises person around to whom people turn for advice (and healing), so she is interacting with others quite often.
True, but perhaps for a benefit of more HP? Happy to drop it down though.
Not sure where you got the idea that I got the idea that power is hard to play. Sorry if I somehow made you believe that I believe that.
I am not an experienced player so either caster or shifter will make me happy. The dod-sa line was for the shifter type build so them miss you as you run through the packs of monsters shifted!
Thanks heaps. I appreciate your time.
k, first, if you arent gonna shift, WHY make a druid? That in itself is very bizzare!
to the dodg line, NO! WHy on earth would you give up 3 feats for something that could be so easily replaced by tumble 40 (one monk lvl)?
You know, the icunarmd i cant speak positivly on anymore. I built a dragon with Dev crit in PRC a few years ago and i know you couldnt take dev crit with Unarmed, you needed creature (hence the PRC). Again, 19-20 vs 20... is it worth the feat?
What on earth does a druid need with Charisma? NOTHING! Dont listen to the peanut gallery! You GIMP your character by taking stats that you dont need for anything other than some silly RP reasons! It makes no sense at all, but thats just me.
When you shift, the con is over written, meaning your HP adjust to that of the shape! Tell me why you would need HP IF you are in another shape?
Epic spells, are you serious! Any feat that you give up for ONE USE PER DAY isnt worth it! IT is one of the reasons i never seriously played a druid in my life, as i always saw them as limited. And as far as i recall, nwn doesnt allow casting in any non-race shapes.
What are you doing running through mobs? dude, you really need to go to a pw and play with other people! You learn so much that way!
Quote: Posted 11/10/09 21:07 (GMT) -- gsle
Because I know that some feats are "wasteful" and I don't want a character that is so hard to play that it is not fun anymore.
I got your idea that power is hard to play from that. You do realize that druids ARE challenging cuz they have shapes and spells! The least you could do it make your character tough enough to survive, but thats me. _________________
k, first, if you arent gonna shift, WHY make a druid? That in itself is very bizzare!
I will shift. It is just, as you pointed, out whether the main focus in on casting or shifting, I guess. At the moment, after reading all those helpful posts, I am leaning towards the shifting.
Quote: to the dodg line, NO! WHy on earth would you give up 3 feats for something that could be so easily replaced by tumble 40 (one monk lvl)?
Perhaps because I am not going to take any monk lvls?
Quote: You know, the icunarmd i cant speak positivly on anymore. I built a dragon with Dev crit in PRC a few years ago and i know you couldnt take dev crit with Unarmed, you needed creature (hence the PRC). Again, 19-20 vs 20... is it worth the feat?
I wouldn't know whether it is worth a feat or not, that's why I am here. If you think it is not, than it is gone.
Quote: What on earth does a druid need with Charisma? NOTHING! Dont listen to the peanut gallery! You GIMP your character by taking stats that you dont need for anything other than some silly RP reasons! It makes no sense at all, but thats just me.
Fair enough.
Quote: When you shift, the con is over written, meaning your HP adjust to that of the shape! Tell me why you would need HP IF you are in another shape?
I didn't know that, I thought you retain your HP and get additional temporary HP.
Quote: Epic spells, are you serious! Any feat that you give up for ONE USE PER DAY isnt worth it! IT is one of the reasons i never seriously played a druid in my life, as i always saw them as limited. And as far as i recall, nwn doesnt allow casting in any non-race shapes.
Well that just shows I don't know any better. But if I want a druid focused on shifting what other feats are useful? I don't see Great Wisdom being useful for shifted druid who doesn't have any monk levels. But may be I just don't know.
Quote: What are you doing running through mobs? dude, you really need to go to a pw and play with other people! You learn so much that way!
I would probably annoy other people since I wouldn't know what I am doing.
Quote: Posted 11/10/09 21:07 (GMT) -- gsle
Quote: Because I know that some feats are "wasteful" and I don't want a character that is so hard to play that it is not fun anymore.
I got your idea that power is hard to play from that. You do realize that druids ARE challenging cuz they have shapes and spells! The least you could do it make your character tough enough to survive, but thats me.
I see. I meant to say that I realise that I will not have an optimal build due to some suboptimal choices of feats however I don't want the choices to be so poor that the character becomes so weak that it will be hard to play. Sorry about the confusion. And yes, that's exactly what I am trying to do here - making character tough enough to survive.
Thanks for your feedback. _________________ Conservatism is suspicious of thinking, because thinking on the whole leads to wrong conclusions, unless you think very, very hard. - (Roger Scruton)
Edited By gsle on 11/11/09 03:02
You arent powergaming, so the excercise is not to squeeze every last bit of performance out of the Druid class.
Some general basic pointers are all that is really required. This has been nicely done if you overlook the deviations from your stated intent. Read Thax's druid guide. Look at pulse cap for samples - theres even an 'iconic' pure druid build or two in there from memory - this will show you the feats to focus on, so you can make a considered choice in replacing with your personal preferences...
so..
Go pure Druid. Its fun. You have to think, adapt. You stated your desire for a pure build, so go with it. OC will not be terribly hard, Druids are great with a bit of practice.
You can cast buffs, offense and defense. You can melee. You can summon.
Take Cha if you want .. you arent powergaming, so it doesnt matter. It will help a little with your dominating creatures.
I would agree with taking more meta-magic feats.
Aim for Dragon Shape, its fun, it has its uses but it is not the be-all and end-all feat to take.
But most importantly, personalise it to what you think you like. I dont personally like playing other people's cookie-cutter builds, and i find playing 'flawed' characters MUCH more satisfying.
eg.. consider ESF:Persuade, Brew Potion (for later modules)- options that i have definitely taken in the past.
Peace and many happy treehugging returns to you from a fellow druid connoiseur .
Quote: Posted 11/11/09 03:01 (GMT) -- jumjones
Some general basic pointers are all that is really required. This has been nicely done if you overlook the deviations from your stated intent. Read Thax's druid guide. Look at pulse cap for samples - theres even an 'iconic' pure druid build or two in there from memory - this will show you the feats to focus on, so you can make a considered choice in replacing with your personal preferences...
Thanks jumjones. I have read the guide and looked at the samples. All were very helpful. However since I have very little experience with build and all but one druid builds (including the guide) have some monk levels I do not know how much of their advice applies to a pure build.
Quote:
eg.. consider ESF:Persuade, Brew Potion (for later modules)- options that i have definitely taken in the past.
Yes, I have ESF: Persuade, and I did consider Brew Potion - didn't take it at the end because have no idea how it works in the game. But I will reconsider it.
Quote: Peace and many happy treehugging returns to you from a fellow druid connoiseur .
Same to you and thanks for the advice. _________________ Conservatism is suspicious of thinking, because thinking on the whole leads to wrong conclusions, unless you think very, very hard. - (Roger Scruton)
Quote: Posted 11/11/09 01:41 (GMT) -- gsle Just druid. The initial build was a caster but I don't mind changing it to a shifter type since you said that druids are all about shifting
Druids aren't all about shifting. It's a major aspect of their class, but neglecting their spells and to a lesser degree the summoned companion would be a mistake.
Quote: Right, would those feats be useless if I wanted her to be a "shifter type"? I was under impression that IC: unarmed worked while shifted, happy to get rid of it if it doesn't.
Dodge/Mobility/Spring Attack aren't really needed, monk level or not. Dodge if you want it, but especially in most forms, if you cross class tumble you'll be fine.
Spellbook management is less important for Druids and only really needed if you want to do a lot of offensive casting, though I'd take Silent and Extend at a minimum. Empower next priority and then Maximize.
Quote: I don't have a trouble seeing her having Cha 14. Just because she lives in harmony with nature doesn't mean she doesn't interact with people. I have actually thought about RPing Cha 14 for her. Perhaps she lives near a small village that doesn't even have a priest so she is the wises person around to whom people turn for advice (and healing), so she is interacting with others quite often.
Not to mention Cha is primarily about strength of personality, regardless of how others perceive you, though people tend to perceive those with high Cha better. She can live as a hermit in the middle of nowhere and have 30 charisma if you want.
Avado is frothing at the mouth because it doesn't really add any mechanical power in terms of combat. However, in this sort of build you have some spare points to burn and Charisma is fine, particularly if you want to be more persuasive and suave. Don't worry yourself over it.
Quote: True, but perhaps for a benefit of more HP? Happy to drop it down though.
I wouldn't. 16 wisdom is fine, 14 con is more hp in caster form, even if it's overwritten by all of your shifts.
Quote: I am not an experienced player so either caster or shifter will make me happy. The dod-sa line was for the shifter type build so them miss you as you run through the packs of monsters shifted!
A druid does both casting and shifting. Try to get a shield/armor/helmet with the shifted stats that you want and keep in mind that only the highest value of an individual stat is carried over...so having 4 strength on each item is bad, having 4 str, 4 con, and 4 dex is good.
Quote: If I wanted her to shift primarily would that still be true? I mean you can't cast spells while shifted but you can cast Epic Spells.
The default Epic Spells are rather weak, and though you gain 2 epic spells, you lose 2 normal spells and 1 DC. That said, for a build like this without monk, they're probably worth it just as an added thing you can do.
Quote: Right, would those feats be useless if I wanted her to be a "shifter type"? I was under impression that IC: unarmed worked while shifted, happy to get rid of it if it doesn't.
Dodge/Mobility/Spring Attack aren't really needed, monk level or not. Dodge if you want it, but especially in most forms, if you cross class tumble you'll be fine.
Would Mobility be also useful since attacks of opportunity can arise in other ways then just by moving around? Or is it still not worth the feat?
Thanks for all your help. I will keep your pointers in mind. _________________ Conservatism is suspicious of thinking, because thinking on the whole leads to wrong conclusions, unless you think very, very hard. - (Roger Scruton)
Edited By gsle on 11/11/09 03:55
Quote: Posted 11/11/09 03:54 (GMT) -- gsle
Would Mobility be also useful since attacks of opportunity can arise in other ways then just by moving around? Or is it still not worth the feat?
Besides drinking potions, not really. Use Defensive Casting if you're casting and you won't be using a ranged weapon in melee.
You need to stop paying so much attention to avado, he knows Clerics well, but he's messing up Druids right now, better take what Magical Master says.
Shifts have unarmed as their base weapon, all of them, so Improved Critical: unarmed works, avado was wrong, period. What doesn't work is Weapon Focus, Epic Weapon Focus, Weapon Specialization, Epic Weapon Specialization and Devastating Critical, though Overwhelming Critical does work if I remember correctly. So not worth it.
I've played non-shifter Druids, they're perfectly good casters, healers, summoners and buffers (all at the same time) so ignore avado again.
You only focus on full-time shifting when you take a Monk level, otherwise, it's not reliable enough, and your offensive spells will outmatch your melee on most cases, needless to repeat, avado is just wrong. 14 CON is perfectly fine, you need HP and Concentration checks when casting spells but CHA is usless on a pure Druid. It is true that your base CON is lost when shifted, but as I said, a non-Monk Druid won't work as a full time shifter. You do use shifts, but don't bet on them for everything.
The thing about Epic Spells is that the only worthwhile ones as far as I see it are Epic Warding and Epic Mage Armor, none of which can be taken by a Druid.
Dodge, Mobility and Spring Attack are useless, some metamagics are way better. I like Empower, Silent and Maximized, but you take whatever you like. _________________ "My name is Thaxll'ssyllia, but you simians may refer to me merely as "Sir", if you prefer a less... syllable intensive workout."
Edwin Odesseiron - Baldur's Gate II: Shadows of Amn
You need to stop paying so much attention to avado, he knows Clerics well, but he's messing up Druids...
That is the biggest understatement EVER! I know next to NOTHING about the tree huggers and i am PROUD of it! LOL
The only reason i posted was to get this dude some REAL help! If you look back, you will see that he made a choice to replace Quicken with dodge - SA! And that's WITH suggestions! OUCH!
Besides drinking potions, not really. Use Defensive Casting if you're casting and you won't be using a ranged weapon in melee.
I have heard rumors about this thing called defensive casting, but i never understood it. Yes, i get the mechanics and all that junk, but seriously, why on earth would ANYONE ever use it? ITs like admitting that you suck and cant kill a bloody thing, and who would EVER admit that? By all means, if it makes you sleep better, use this tactic. My suggestions though is more radical.. LEarn to KILL THINGS! You are playing the OC alone so RP cannot be the reason to play (unless you like to play alone.. ever try to RP by yourself??). IT is scary to me that ECBers suggest this at all! Oh well...
The only reason i posted was to get this dude some REAL help! If you look back, you will see that he made a choice to replace Quicken with dodge - SA! And that's WITH suggestions! OUCH!
A bonus AC against your target when you're fighting only 1 or 2 things at a time is better than you'd think, and Quicken is worthless given the availability of Haste.
Quote: I have heard rumors about this thing called defensive casting, but i never understood it. Yes, i get the mechanics and all that junk, but seriously, why on earth would ANYONE ever use it?
Because we're not cool enough to always provoke an attack of opportunity when we cast a spell
Because we're not cool enough to always provoke an attack of opportunity when we cast a spell
again, you read the words but miss the point! This is what makes me sad about what is left... This once great guild is reduced to a bunch of people saying def casting is acceptable, when it should NEVER be for an epic build. What's next, the use of the space bar to PAUSE the game so you can strategize first! This is epic advice... _________________
I agree with avado, Storm of Vengeance rocks, it stuns great, it can deal heavy damage over time, and Evasion doesn't work against it, you should try it in your strategy as well, too bad it's conjura
Quote: Posted 11/11/09 19:03 (GMT) -- avado
again, you read the words but miss the point! This is what makes me sad about what is left... This once great guild is reduced to a bunch of people saying def casting is acceptable, when it should NEVER be for an epic build. What's next, the use of the space bar to PAUSE the game so you can strategize first! This is epic advice...
Why isn't it acceptable? That's like saying Expertise isn't acceptable. That's like saying Counterspelling isn't acceptable.
Why isn't it acceptable? That's like saying Expertise isn't acceptable. That's like saying Counterspelling isn't acceptable.
I truly dont expect you to get it. You either play to win or you play to survive, but you cant do both. The mindset is totally different.
I played with people who played it safe and they were always amazed at what i did and what they couldnt do. Being defensive is a way to play, just not one that I can say is a sound strategy.
Like i said, i dont expect you to understand. You play in your head, i play with my gut. While i can see your side, my side is totaly hidden from you. That's what makes this world great. The thing is, all the other guilds talk about playin it safe. ECB should be different. We have always been the place where people came to get the GREAT ideas. How is playing it safe great?
Let me put it another way. In Canada, we have investments called Guaranteed Investment Certs or GIC's. They BARELY keep up with inflation. In canada, almost a TRILLION dollars is invested in these useless pieces of garbage and people wonder why they arent RICH! That's using expertise and def casting. You can do it, but it wont get you anywhere. The ones that get RICH take educated RISKS and invest in the markets where real growth is possible. To make the parallel, eveyone is saying invest in GICs, so we should be the ones saying INVEST in the Markets!
Probably missed it again, thats cool. Go play it safe. _________________
This post is for general information purposes only, and does not constitute a legal opinion or render any legal advice. It may not be relied on for any purpose, and gives rise to
Quote: Thaxll'ssyllia wrote: You only focus on full-time shifting when you take a Monk level, otherwise, it's not reliable enough, and your offensive spells will outmatch your melee on most cases,
Thanks, that's good to know. I will revert the build to a caster type: I'll drop dodge - SA feats and IC: Unarmed and get back Expertise, Improved Expertise, Extend Spell feats and Brew Potion as a last pre epic feat. In Epics I'll drop Epic Spells and get 10 Great Wisdom feats in total.
Quote: avado wrote: You are playing the OC alone so RP cannot be the reason to play (unless you like to play alone.. ever try to RP by yourself??)
I play alone because I am one of those people who
Quote: use ... the space bar to PAUSE the game so (I) can strategize first!
Thank you all for your help. _________________ Conservatism is suspicious of thinking, because thinking on the whole leads to wrong conclusions, unless you think very, very hard. - (Roger Scruton)
fyi.
Brew potion - I dont think the NWN1 OC has empty potion bottles, so its a useless feat for that particular module.. not sure about SoU or HotU ..
Well, I'd suggest to take IC:unarmed over Brew Potion, but have fun your way.
There's nothing wrong with Defensive Casting, I don't use it but that's my style, since I shift when enemies get near, but it prevents Attacks of Opportunity, so there's no logic powergaming reason not to use it, it won't hinder your offensive strength. _________________ "My name is Thaxll'ssyllia, but you simians may refer to me merely as "Sir", if you prefer a less... syllable intensive workout."
Edwin Odesseiron - Baldur's Gate II: Shadows of Amn
Edited By Thaxll'ssyllia on 11/12/09 01:26
Yes I know there is no use for Brew Potion in OC that's why I take it at lvl 18. Not sure where I'll take the character after OC yet.
I've dropped IC: Unarmed because I got impression here that increasing chance of critical hit by 5% is not worth the feat. Perhaps what you are saying is that it is still better than Brew Potion? _________________ Conservatism is suspicious of thinking, because thinking on the whole leads to wrong conclusions, unless you think very, very hard. - (Roger Scruton)
Quote: Posted 11/11/09 22:07 (GMT) -- avado
I truly dont expect you to get it. You either play to win or you play to survive, but you cant do both. The mindset is totally different.
So if I have the option between casting 10 spells while trying to "win" and casting those same 10 spells while *not* provoking an attack opportunity, how exactly is that not longer playing to "win?"
I never TRYD to combat in nwn. I wonder if you would follow someone who says "Ill try to find out if it works or not. I dont know, but ill try!" ITs an attitude thing, not so much a mechanics thing. That is why you dont understand!
Please understand, your way is your way! I just dont think its so great to suggest to people that the build they are using is so AWESOME that before each combat, you need NOT provoke the enemy for fear of being attacked! I would prefer, LET THEM SWING! They wont get to you anyway so KILL first! Mindset. _________________
This post is for general information purposes only, and does not constitute a legal opinion or render any legal advice. It may not be relied on for any purpose, and gives rise to
Quote: Posted 11/12/09 04:32 (GMT) -- avado
Please understand, your way is your way! I just dont think its so great to suggest to people that the build they are using is so AWESOME that before each combat, you need NOT provoke the enemy for fear of being attacked! I would prefer, LET THEM SWING! They wont get to you anyway so KILL first! Mindset.
Amazingly enough, even if they don't reach you, you don't lose anything for activating Defensive Casting
Hi guys. After a careful consideration I have change my build (again). She remains a caster type but instead of abjuration spells she will focus on evocation. I didn't pick conjuration because where she is from conjurers are distrusted (however she will still use the spells - unlike necromancy that she will not use). Her stats: STR: 10 DEX: 10 CON: 14 WIS: 16 (32) INT: 12 CHA: 14 She will drop: Expertise, Improved Expertise, Extend Spell and Brew Potion for Spell Focus: Evocation, Greater Spell Focus: Evocation, Spell Penetration and Greater Spell Penetration and in epics instead of few Great Wisdom feats she will get Epic Spell Focus: Evocation, Epic Spell Penetration, Hellball and Greater Ruin
What is better skill Heal or Lore? I'd picked Lore because she can Heal herself but may be I am wrong?
With the feats I know nobody here recommended spell penetration feats so I wonder why. Please if those are useless let me know.
Thanks for your patience. _________________ Only when we know little do we know anything; doubt grows with knowledge. - (Johann Wolfgang von Goethe)
For some reason I couldn't see this topic no more. It's back now.
Edited By gsle on 11/12/09 21:29
Quote: Posted 11/12/09 06:01 (GMT) -- gsle
and in epics instead of few Great Wisdom feats she will get Epic Spell Focus: Evocation, Epic Spell Penetration, Hellball and Greater Ruin
Normally those epic spells are a bad idea compared to a better casting score. However, they can be fun to play with and the difference (considering you're a druid versus a mage or cleric) won't be significant. This also isn't a level 40 build for a server.
Quote: What is better skill Heal or Lore? I'd picked Lore because she can Heal herself but may be I am wrong?
Lore will likely be better overall given the environments you'll be in for the OC and HotU, just so you can identify stuff in the field.
Quote: With the feats I know nobody here recommended spell penetration feats so I wonder why. Please if those are useless let me know.
The max "default" spell resistance in the toolset is 32, so unless you're facing monks or enemy clerics/druids with Spell Resistance up, it's a bit of a waste level 30+.
I see. Thanks for clearing that up Magical Master. _________________ Only when we know little do we know anything; doubt grows with knowledge. - (Johann Wolfgang von Goethe)
If you did not already know this, spell focus will not help epic spells. Better choices may involve Mummy Dust or Dragon Knight, both of which are good meat shields with a fear aura.
If you did not already know this, spell focus will not help epic spells. Better choices may involve Mummy Dust or Dragon Knight, both of which are good meat shields with a fear aura.
Thanks WhiZard. I have no experience with epic spells and picked those two solely for RP reasons. Thanks for the information. _________________ Only when we know little do we know anything; doubt grows with knowledge. - (Johann Wolfgang von Goethe)
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The dod-sa line was for the shifter type build so them miss you as you run through the packs of monsters shifted! 
I don't see Great Wisdom being useful for shifted druid who doesn't have any monk levels. But may be I just don't know.
For some reason I couldn't see this topic no more.