Looked over the feat skill set for monks before epic seems a bit hit and miss really.

blind fight(for concealed foes)
weapon finess(dexer type )
improve initative (nice to react first)

these ones i liked:

power attack (gets greater cleave)
greater cleave (for mobs)
weapon focus (more can not hurt)

questioning ones:

extra stuns? (3 more make a big deal?)
dodge(that really +1 dodge?)
mobility(need dodge as well)
spring attack (no oppurtinities in movemnt... that needed for a monk?)
whirl attack (that any good for a monk? )

I know expertise and improved expertise tried working it with both and really flipping back and forth from flurry blows doubt be so inclined.

I know weapon specialize and improve crit hands ...can offset with a ring of might ...why not mentioned them.

after epic pretty easy to figure out what to do but perhaps there feat ovr looked that is good or just me?

Of course above all no really nothing about monks just trying to get knowledge from people that do know and apply it to what i would use as a play style...so of course looking to a higher power to figure this stuff out.


raven
Quote: Posted 11/20/09 03:12 (GMT) -- raven blackwood 92

Looked over the feat skill set for monks before epic seems a bit hit and miss really.

blind fight(for concealed foes)
weapon finess(dexer type )
improve initative (nice to react first)
You really like dexer monks! ever watch a sparrow fight a tree? bout the same effectiveness!
Quote: 
these ones i liked:

power attack (gets greater cleave)
greater cleave (for mobs)
weapon focus (more can not hurt)
for gr cleave to be WORTH it, you need to really be able to do SIGNIFICANT damage with each hit. Dex monks cant. It is generally, of the opinion of those around that the ONLY time Gr cl is worth it is when you go for Dev crit. Otherwise, it isnt.

Quote: 
questioning ones:

extra stuns? (3 more make a big deal?)
dodge(that really +1 dodge?)
mobility(need dodge as well)
spring attack (no oppurtinities in movemnt... that needed for a monk?)
whirl attack (that any good for a monk? )
Extra stun? If you are making a stunner. Dodge, YES. SA, WW? Why? you get tumble as class skill and ww is great with no damage!

Quote: 
I know expertise and improved expertise tried working it with both and really flipping back and forth from flurry blows doubt be so inclined.
[/quote[
never really worth it EVER, imho.

Quote: 
I know weapon specialize and improve crit hands ...can offset with a ring of might ...why not mentioned them.
We NEVER talk about a build with ANY gear. While the ring may be common in OC, it may not be on a pw. Oh, and without 4 ftr lvls, specialzation is IMPOSSIBLE!

(quote)
after epic pretty easy to figure out what to do but perhaps there feat ovr looked that is good or just me?


easy? as far as i can tell, you now have a lv 20 char with NO feats! LOL jk

The feats that COULD realy help push monks over the top are the SAVE feats. sorry meaning improved spell resistance and improve stun fist, improved ki strike 4 and 5 list great feats to try and attain. The lower in the pre epic seem to be struggling with. Decided yes at level 16th monk take four levels of fighter for sure. Just get stuck where end up with some fets in the list not sure how they are great choices is all.

starting stats thinking ::(look away avado) dexer yet again

str 13
dex 15 (21)
con 10
wis 17 (21)
int 10
cha 8

get the ki strikes +4 and +5 right after epic that way.but takes me down the dodge mobility spring attack road just to burn some feats before pre epic.

improved intiative good thinking as dexer liek to strike first all the time. Just thought is all. does the +4 or the +8 at epic make a huge difference was thinking perhaps yes is all.

No category for monks among the stickies so hence all the questions.

thanks
Raven
Quote: Posted 11/20/09 04:42 (GMT) -- avado

You really like dexer monks! ever watch a sparrow fight a tree? bout the same effectiveness!
Actually it's more like a woodpecker, but the point is still valid.
Especially so if you are used to characters buffed with bless, aid, prayer, battletide, GMW, darkfire, divine favor, divine power and what not.

(That's why I recommend kama wielding cleric/monk for a dex build, but perhaps that's a bit off topic)
_________________
I generally avoid temptation, unless I can't resist it...

Edited By Mick Dagger on 11/20/09 12:43

The spell reistance for monks whats a good number to come in at I heard 62 is the magic number ? that correct?

There a purpose to intiative , thinking of taking blooded a +2 then imporve intitative for +4 then superior for +8 so that be +10 to the roll is that going to be somethign worth having just working in somethign that kinda meaningless?
Quote: Posted 11/20/09 21:15 (GMT) -- raven blackwood 92

The spell reistance for monks whats a good number to come in at I heard 62 is the magic number ? that correct?

66 and PC casters can't touch you. 40+6+20. I don't know if there are that many pure casters that take Epic Spell Penetration though. I suppose you'll find a few that'll think it's worth it. It would be interesting to see how good they are at playing casters. Maybe they have the feats but not the skill to get you? lmao! What good is havin SR through the roof and no killing power?

to OP: those gloves suck ***! If you are building for those, DONT DO IT! I think i have a pair of ratty old mittens around my apartment that would do more damage than those! And i am NOT even kidding! I am finding it amazing how persistant you are on this dexer fist build after ALL the evidence has been put to you about how inferior it will be to ANYTHING else! Infact, you may be able to make a fist pure SORC that i can GUARANTEE will do more damage and kill faster WITHOUT offensive spells! Please, dont waste your time!

Now, IF the gloves you were gonna play had 3 different types of damage with massive crits and stuff, then MAYBE, and thats a BIG maybe! You will find this to be one of the most FRUSTRATING builds ever! How do i know? Years ago, i fell in love with a defense based Defender build. I thought it was GODLY on paper! After getting into it, i found it lacking in sOOOO many ways, with the ability to kill right up there. The difference with that one is i HAD enchantments on my weapon. I had 30BAB! The dexer monk is for the guy that likes to feel safe and do NO damage... funny its a monk! Wasnt that the motto for Shaaolin
Quote: Posted 11/20/09 04:42 (GMT) -- avado It is generally, of the opinion of those around that the ONLY time Gr cl is worth it is when you go for Dev crit. Otherwise, it isnt.
I believe a dev will not trigger a great cleave. Assuming I'm not mistaken, that would make great cleave a rather bad feat choice for a dever (ignoring, for the moment, that there is no choice.). Great Cleave is useful for those who do decent to good damage, but who's APR suffers. That is still most definitely not a DEX monkey.
Quote: Posted 11/21/09 05:40 (GMT) -- onion eater

Quote: Posted 11/20/09 04:42 (GMT) -- avado It is generally, of the opinion of those around that the ONLY time Gr cl is worth it is when you go for Dev crit. Otherwise, it isnt.
I believe a dev will not trigger a great cleave. Assuming I'm not mistaken, that would make great cleave a rather bad feat choice for a dever (ignoring, for the moment, that there is no choice.). Great Cleave is useful for those who do decent to good damage, but who's APR suffers. That is still most definitely not a DEX monkey.

onion, you MUST take gr cleave to get dev crit! That is the ONLY reason to take gr cleave, to get dev crit! The USE of gr cl is pretty much useless UNLTESS you are fighting some kobalds that are 20 lvls lower than you! Then you gr cl away! The gr cleave discussion has been had MANY times on various pages of this guild and the ONLY time to take it is to QUALIFY for Dev crit (like that better?? )
Quote: Posted 11/21/09 14:44 (GMT) -- avado
onion, you MUST take gr cleave to get dev crit! That is the ONLY reason to take gr cleave, to get dev crit! The USE of gr cl is pretty much useless UNLTESS you are fighting some kobalds that are 20 lvls lower than you! Then you gr cl away! The gr cleave discussion has been had MANY times on various pages of this guild and the ONLY time to take it is to QUALIFY for Dev crit (like that better?? )
Yes, you must take it for Dev, which is the best reason to take it, but not the only one. It's not an awful feat in and of itself, at least in the right situations. If you've got a fighter heavy build, perhaps using a two hander, with pre-epic feats to blow, it's not an awful feat. No, you don't have to be fighting 20 hp kabolds to make use of it. All you have to do is kill more than one opponents in a round. This doesn't mean you need one hit kills. One also doesn't need to have seven great cleaves in a round. A single extra attack, every several rounds, has value. How great is that value? Not so much, but often enough it's at least a decent feat choice, compared to alternatives.

IIRC it was webby who convinced me of my GRT CLV views. Think he loved it for his two-hander melee mages, who do pretty good damage, but suffer badly in the APR department.
Quote: Posted 11/21/09 18:20 (GMT) -- onion eater
.. All you have to do is kill more than one opponents in a round. This doesn't mean you need one hit kills. One also doesn't need to have seven great cleaves in a round. A single extra attack, every several rounds, has value. How great is that value? Not so much, but often enough it's at least a decent feat choice, compared to alternatives.


CLEAVE? thanks for proving the point that cleave>>> gr cleave! Due to how the flurry mechanic works, sometimes your cleave attack will fire at the same target killed by a previous attack in that flurry. Hence...great cleave's "use."
Quote: Posted 11/21/09 18:37 (GMT) -- avado

CLEAVE? thanks for proving the point that cleave>>> gr cleave!
Extra, as in beyond what you already have.

That said, yeah, Cleave is a more efficient feat than the Great version. Such is often the case, where the initial ability is more significant than the improvement. Same could be said for KD and IKD, or expertise and imp exp, or...