I'm a low magic world that is mostly PvE. The highest magic is typically around +3 for items. Leveling is fairly slow so getting to lvl 10 can take a from 2 weeks of consistent playing to a month. so I need a build that is capable thought out the life of the character.
server is FRC(Forgotten Realms Cormyr) btw
I'm in a dwarf only guild so the race must be Dwarven.
I'd like to be a ranged rogue with mostly rogue levels.(no shadowdancer allowed)
For skills, I'd like all the basic rogue skills so that I can be a groups trap smith/locksmith. Appraise is required as he will be a bit of a merchantish type as well. Also craft trap as the server allows you to break down traps as well as craft them.(I'm planning on less crafting and more braking down to make more money) and need healing skill as being a back line player I probably will be healing the tank or others a decent amount.
Also as my rogues AC is never really going to be on par with tanks i don't mind haven't a low AC. Wouldn't mind a decent ac but the goal is to never get within melee range. (ya its an unachievable goal but its the goal nonetheless)
So Summery of what i'm looking for: - Dwarf - Mostly rogue - Low magic realm PvE oriented slow lvl'ing - Ranged focus - needs to have the basic rogue skills to be useful to a group(including healing) as well as being a merchant.(appraise and craft trap) - NO SHADOWDANCER classes (I know I was sad but lets be honest 1 lvl of it makes almost any build a cheeze one)
I've been using the build searcher consistently and haven't found anything that jumped out at me for this what I'm looking for. I may of missed it honestly but I'm asking now for assistance in getting a good build up.
Edited By TemplariDM on 04/13/10 21:20
What do you mean near pure: 21 levels, 25 levels, 30 levels, or 35 levels. The higher the rogue the less you will be able to heal outside of healing kits and UMD.
Here are three strategies for complementing a 35 level+ rogue archer: 1) Dwarven Defender: Immune to Flanking
2) Paladin: Fear Immune, Divine Might.
3) Barbarian: Speed increase.
Rogue/Cleric with Trickery domain? _________________ They can't stop us Let them try For Heavy Metal We will die
pure meaning mostly rogue if not all rogue for the skills and sneak attacks.
aren't rogue's immune to flanking anyway?
and for domains, I would have to pick a dwarven god and use two of their specific domains. I'll look to see if those two are covered by any of the dwarven gods.
If you want mostly rogue or only rogue, then you got your path laid out, don't you?
Don't underestimate a little fighter splash for some neat feats and EWS. Rogue35/Fighter5 is actually a very good build, and no penalty for Dwarves. 26 BAB, Epic dodge, huge sneak attacks and EWS readily availible. Not sure I'd go for Cleric with so few levels of it, all depending. _________________ We are sons of Odin, and the fire that we burn inside is the legacy of warrior-kings who reign above in the sky I will lead the charge, my sword into the wind Sons of Odin fights to die and live again
If you want mostly rogue or only rogue, then you got your path laid out, don't you?
Agreed, that was one iI was thinking of, however since I'd like to do ranged mostly that makes feats slightly different and not sure how to best lay out my skills and such to maximize their potential.
That and i thought there was like a rule of 4 to maximize your AB so 4 fighter? or should i go 5 or even 6 for the specialize?
Quote: Posted 04/15/10 00:01 (GMT) -- TemplariDM
That and i thought there was like a rule of 4 to maximize your AB so 4 fighter? or should i go 5 or even 6 for the specialize?
4 pre-epic and the 5th level epic for the epic specialization and discipline dump.
You also can get the 4APR without multiclass penalty from taking a prestige class like: COT: Smites, Feats, and Saves DwD: Immune Flanking WM: Better crits.
Edited By WhiZard on 04/15/10 01:10
Quote: Posted 04/14/10 14:39 (GMT) -- Grimnir77
If you want mostly rogue or only rogue, then you got your path laid out, don't you?
Don't underestimate a little fighter splash for some neat feats and EWS. Rogue35/Fighter5 is actually a very good build, and no penalty for Dwarves. 26 BAB, Epic dodge, huge sneak attacks and EWS readily availible. Not sure I'd go for Cleric with so few levels of it, all depending.
What he said. You lose 2d6 sneak damage, but get 6 permanent (non-sneak) to make up for it ,you will average about the same on sneaks but it will be a great boost vs sneak immunes.
Feats to go for are the usual archer ones: rapid shot, point blank, WF, called shot (not that important, but nifty), Imp. Crit. Since you're medium sized you can use longbows, and the fighter levels should get you the needed proficiency.
In epic levels you can pick up fighter on lv 24 for EWS as soon as possible. The rest of the feats you could put into great dex or Improved sneak attack (making you quite deadly in close quarters). Otherwise Epic dodge comes to mind, or Self Conceal if you like.
Ya I'm looking for a build to follow but still no luck, I've played with a few on my own.
For a weapon I've been debating longbow or crossbow, with a crossbow that would mean one extra feat for the rapid reload so I can use crossbows the same as someone else would use a bow. Crossbow is more dwarven style but I'm not sold on it since it would cost a feat and I've still not gotten a build to follow yet.
If anyone has a build I could follow that would be most welcomed.
According to the forums of your server, Abbathor and Vergadain allow the Trickery domain (with Vergadain giving access to travel in FRC, but no tin FRC2). A Cleric/Rogue/X with the trickery domain will be a pretty powerful and versatile build, able to fulfill the role you picture.
I don't understand why you think your rogue will have lower AC than the tanks, this is not generally true.
May I suggest a dwarven Rogue 20(24)/FTR 10(6)/AA 10? _________________ They can't stop us Let them try For Heavy Metal We will die
Edited By Kail Pendragon on 04/16/10 13:12
Quote: Posted 04/16/10 13:11 (GMT) -- Kail Pendragon May I suggest a dwarven Rogue 20(24)/FTR 10(6)/AA 10?
Not for servers with ELC.
Quote: Posted 04/17/10 01:40 (GMT) -- WhiZard
Quote: Posted 04/16/10 13:11 (GMT) -- Kail Pendragon May I suggest a dwarven Rogue 20(24)/FTR 10(6)/AA 10?
Not for servers with ELC.
FRC has ELC enabled. (just checked)
Oh, and Kail do you have a build that I can follow by chance that follows your suggestion?
Oh wait, AA require elf/half-elf, i couldn't do that as a dwarf anyway.
Edited By TemplariDM on 04/17/10 08:41
Quote: Posted 04/17/10 08:33 (GMT) -- TemplariDM
Oh wait, AA require elf/half-elf, i couldn't do that as a dwarf anyway.
Yes you could (if ELC were not turned on... btw Whiz are you sure ELC checks for base race?) what you can't do is Rogue/FTR/AA (no arcane casting), at most you could do a dwarven Rogue/Bard/AA. It requires the use of a spell which is seemingly unmodified on FRC.
Regarding the Cleric/Rogue, I can make a lvl up guide. _________________ They can't stop us Let them try For Heavy Metal We will die
a Dwarven rogue/cleric would have an Exp Penalty wouldn't it? cause the favored class is fighter so anything other then that would cause the penalty.... humm
Quote: Posted 04/17/10 18:33 (GMT) -- TemplariDM
a Dwarven rogue/cleric would have an Exp Penalty wouldn't it? cause the favored class is fighter so anything other then that would cause the penalty.... humm
Not necessarily, the right leveling and a balanced class split will avoid it. You could also have a Cleric/Rogue/FTR without XP penalties (eg Cleric 18/Rogue 16/FTR 6). That said, in general I am not concerned by XP penalties but you have to decide whether it's something you can bear or not in FRC. At the moment I am thinking about Cleric/Rogue, Cleric/Rogue/Monk (XP penalty but extra AC and monk's apr) and Cleric/Rogue/FTR.
You could also go with the alltime classic Rogue/FTR/CoT or pick a Rogue/FTR/DwD both dex based epic dodgers and hence easy to adapt at ranged combat. The DwD one will actually be a tank itself given ED and DR. _________________ They can't stop us Let them try For Heavy Metal We will die
In my test when reporting this, the character could not log in even when saved as polymorphed. There is a possibility that 1.69 needed to remove the polymorph to give the PC the horse properties skin and that was done before the ELC trigger, but this is unlikely as the OnModuleLoad event should be taking place after the ELC check.
Because you gain experience so slowly I would want to avoid any exp penalty completely.
Quote: Posted 04/18/10 06:54 (GMT) -- TemplariDM
Because you gain experience so slowly I would want to avoid any exp penalty completely.
That's a fine reason to avoid an XP penalty. As I mentioned there are ways to make builds without th eXP penalty, you'll need to keep the non favored base classes within 1 lvl of each other but for the 40th lvl (at which point you generally don't care anymore about getting XPs). BTW, are blank scrolls and bone wands (the latter is less important, you can craft them out of skeletons) easily available on FRC? Have the magic crafting feats been altered? _________________ They can't stop us Let them try For Heavy Metal We will die
Quote: Posted 04/16/10 13:11 (GMT) -- Kail Pendragon May I suggest a dwarven Rogue 20(24)/FTR 10(6)/AA 10?
LOL I vote that Kail gets 1000 lashes with a wet noodle for giving away one of the ECB's top secret builds! That and the ftr/rdd/sd are rights to be passed after you have passed the ECB test
Here's a pure rogue heavy crossbow wielder.
STR 10 DEX 18 (32) CON 16 INT 14 WIS 8 CHA 6
1 Point Blank Shot 2 3 Weapon Focus: Heavy Crossbow 4 5 6 Called Shot 7 8 (Second attack comes here) 9 Rapid Reload 10 Improved Evasion 11 12 Blind Fight 13 Skill Master 14 15 ??? (Toughness?) 16 Slippery Mind 17 18 ??? (Skill Focus?) 19 Defensive Roll 20 21 Epic Weapon Focus 22 23 24 Epic Prowess *** 25 26 27 Armor Skin 28 Epic Dodge 29 30 Great Dexterity I 31 32 *** 33 Great Dexterity II 34 35 36 Great Dexterity III, *** 37 38 39 Great Dexterity IV 40 ***
??? indicates non-essential feats, take whatever you want.
Levels with a *** indicate epic rogue bonus feats. Get Epic Skill Foci or Improved Sneak Attack.
You'll be able to max 10 skills with this build. Perhaps
43 Appraise 43 Craft Trap (or however high you need it on your server) 43 Disable Trap 43 Hide 43 Move Silently 8 Lore 43 Open Lock 43 Set Trap (or however high you need it on your server) 43 Tumble 18 Spellcraft 42 UMD
Mundane AB: 40 Base HP: 360 (400 with Toughness)
Note that under standard rules you only need 42 Craft Trap to make Deadly Gas Traps with 100% success (less if you can get intelligence bonuses while crafting).
You also only need 32 points in Set Trap (65 is highest DC, so 45 - 11 (dex) - 2 (disable/set synergy bonus) = 32), less if you get dex gear.
Haven't seen much mention of splashing in some monk levels for an AC boost, since it doesn't look like you will be using a shield or any armor besides robes. Depending on the equipment on the server, you could use a sling and shield for an added ac boost, plus whatever else you might be able to get from a shield.
Quote: Posted 04/18/10 20:05 (GMT) -- DocRufio
Haven't seen much mention of splashing in some monk levels for an AC boost, since it doesn't look like you will be using a shield or any armor besides robes. Depending on the equipment on the server, you could use a sling and shield for an added ac boost, plus whatever else you might be able to get from a shield.
I agree fully with using a sling, one thing I have noticed is that because you will nearly *never* be left to your own devices, and will thus need discipline, use several levels of ranger, or possibly bard if it better fits the concept, throughout the build. One example could be rogue 35, fighter 4, ranger 1. Going this route, I would suggest taking weapon finesse and focus in a good dwarven light weapon, such as the handaxe.
Finally, in the above build, possbly lower dex by 2, raising str by 2 and con by 2. 40 HP, (some) carrying capacity and 1 fortitude would seem a good trade, or raise int by 2 to take discipline.
Quote: Posted 04/18/10 15:39 (GMT) -- avado
Quote: Posted 04/16/10 13:11 (GMT) -- Kail Pendragon May I suggest a dwarven Rogue 20(24)/FTR 10(6)/AA 10?
LOL I vote that Kail gets 1000 lashes with a wet noodle for giving away one of the ECB's top secret builds! That and the ftr/rdd/sd are rights to be passed after you have passed the ECB test
Eh, the lol in my post was actually directed to myself for having thought about that build as a possible one for a couple of minutes once... ah, that's what happens when one is suffering withdrawal from coffeine! _________________ They can't stop us Let them try For Heavy Metal We will die
Kail, no worries. When i was looking through the posts above, the very first thing that came to me was a rogue/aa build aswell. There is just something about what the OP asked that SCREAMS AA! Too bad dwarves cant become AA's. Oh right, whiz figured that out one time!
I suggest the Rogue Archer by Torias at the Epic Builds Page. I've played it and it works as well in game as on paper. It is a highlevel rogue, it is an archer, it is playable, has some solo abilities , great skillset and brutal damage (its actually quite insane). All you have to do is make a dwarf version (with a little less AB), drop the SD level for assassin or just another fighter level to fill in. Even drop the fighter to 5 and take the last on lv 39 for EWS and the discipline dump, gaining you 1d6 of sneak attack.
I suggest the Rogue Archer by Torias at the Epic Builds Page. I've played it and it works as well in game as on paper. It is a highlevel rogue, it is an archer, it is playable, has some solo abilities , great skillset and brutal damage (its actually quite insane). All you have to do is make a dwarf version (with a little less AB), drop the SD level for assassin or just another fighter level to fill in. Even drop the fighter to 5 and take the last on lv 39 for EWS and the discipline dump, gaining you 1d6 of sneak attack.
Might as well take 6, and a level of assasin in epic.
I suggest the Rogue Archer by Torias at the Epic Builds Page. I've played it and it works as well in game as on paper. It is a highlevel rogue, it is an archer, it is playable, has some solo abilities , great skillset and brutal damage (its actually quite insane). All you have to do is make a dwarf version (with a little less AB), drop the SD level for assassin or just another fighter level to fill in. Even drop the fighter to 5 and take the last on lv 39 for EWS and the discipline dump, gaining you 1d6 of sneak attack.
Might as well take 6, and a level of assasin in epic.
What is the point of taking 1 lvl of assassin? shouldn't i go for one more fighter or one more rogue? (would also make it so there's no exp penalty from 21 on.)
Oh, and in the epic build putting in sling instead of a bow... still not sure how I feel about making a dwarf bow user instead of a crossbow user even thought it would mean one less feat with rapid reload which is required for crossbows.
Edited By TemplariDM on 05/04/10 19:43
Quote: Posted 05/04/10 19:33 (GMT) -- TemplariDM
What is the point of taking 1 lvl of assassin? shouldn't i go for one more fighter or one more rogue? (would also make it so there's no exp penalty from 21 on.)
Assassin class doesn't give experience penalty. 34 rogue gives nothing, 33 rogue/1 assassin has an extra d6 of sneak.
Quote: Posted 05/04/10 19:33 (GMT) -- TemplariDM
Oh, and in the epic build putting in sling instead of a bow... still not sure how I feel about making a dwarf bow user instead of a crossbow user even thought it would mean one less feat with rapid reload which is required for crossbows.
Crossbows can't use Rapid Shot, so just drop Rapid Shot for Rapid Reload.
Here's a pure rogue heavy crossbow wielder.