The list of builds has grown so much it is hard to determine the good ones from the uber ones
Could someone direct me to: The best caster The best AB The best AC The best damage The best HP The best range
Please
Thank You.
--PA
Edited By Primeval Atom on 05/05/10 03:00
Quote: Posted 05/05/10 02:59 (GMT) -- Primeval Atom
The best caster
Best caster at doing what? Need more information.
Quote: Posted 05/05/10 02:59 (GMT) -- Primeval Atom
The best AB
Ranged or melee? Buffed or unbuffed?
Quote: Posted 05/05/10 02:59 (GMT) -- Primeval Atom
The best AC
6 Bard/10 SD/24 Pale Master will probably be the highest with Epic Dodge to boot.
Quote: Posted 05/05/10 02:59 (GMT) -- Primeval Atom
The best damage
Physical or spells? Counting stuff like smites or not? What level of gear is available?
Quote: Posted 05/05/10 02:59 (GMT) -- Primeval Atom
The best HP
Fighter 30/DD 10 should be able to get the highest.
19 starting Con, 7 Great Con, 10 Epic Toughness.
Quote: Posted 05/05/10 02:59 (GMT) -- Primeval Atom
The best range
What does this even mean?
Quote: Posted 05/05/10 04:20 (GMT) -- Magical Master What does this even mean?
You are right! There is no Uber build! It all comes down to HOW DO YOU PLAY! Anyone who tries to tell you otherwise is lying to you.
Besides, there best builds today are still from years ago. Nothing has changed.
btw, the "uberist" build of all time is the famous Weapon master/rdd/ SD build. Dont even ask, cuz its top secret.
I am sorry I guess I was not very specific at all
Ok let me fix my request.
The best Spell Caster Template (with level progression in order for me to build it). I am talking about the Caster who is able to kill other caster, NPC or PC, the faster using his/her spells.
The best AB template simply put the character combination that can achieve the highest AB rating possible. (With level progression in order for me to build it).
Ranged or melee? Buffed or unbuffed?
Melee. Buffed.
6 Bard/10 SD/24 Pale Master will probably be the highest with Epic Dodge to boot.
What is the level progression in order for me to replicate?
The best damage
Physical or spells? Counting stuff like smites or not? What level of gear is available?
Physical, Counting everything that could increase damage, gear is non important because in a +1 world everyone just get +1 damage while in a +20 world everyone gets +20. The highest damage template will still do the highest damage (I think).
Fighter 30/DD 10 should be able to get the highest.
19 starting Con, 7 Great Con, 10 Epic Toughness.
What is the level progression in order for me to replicate?
The best range I guess this is the best Range template with the highest AB at range.
Sorry if it was not clear and thank you very much for your help.
--PA _________________ (\__/) (='.'=) This is Bunny. Copy and paste bunny into (")_(") your signature to help him gain world domination.
Quote: Posted 05/05/10 18:26 (GMT) -- Primeval Atom
I am sorry I guess I was not very specific at all
Ok let me fix my request.
The best Spell Caster Template (with level progression in order for me to build it). I am talking about the Caster who is able to kill other caster, NPC or PC, the faster using his/her spells.
Cleric 40 with SoV and Implosion for speed, however Wizards and Sorcerors can hold out longer with spell mantles and tend to be the more dangerous.
Quote: The best AB template simply put the character combination that can achieve the highest AB rating possible. (With level progression in order for me to build it).
Melee. Buffed.
Halfling Fighter 11/WM 28/Rogue 1 (UMD scrolls).
Quote: Highest AC 6 Bard/10 SD/24 Pale Master will probably be the highest with Epic Dodge to boot.
Higher AC from druid 18, wizard 21, monk 1 in Dragon shape with epic mage armor. Out of that shape it can cast level 9 druid and wizard spells.
Quote: The best damage Physical, Counting everything that could increase damage, gear is non important because in a +1 world everyone just get +1 damage while in a +20 world everyone gets +20. The highest damage template will still do the highest damage (I think).
Rogue 39/Assassin 1 with ISA X.
Quote: Highest HP Fighter 30/DD 10 should be able to get the highest.
19 starting Con, 7 Great Con, 10 Epic Toughness.
Again Dragon Shape wins easily.
Quote: The best range I guess this is the best Range template with the highest AB at range.
Elf Fighter 10/Wizard 1/AA 29.
Edited By WhiZard on 05/05/10 19:48
Dont confuse maximum with playability.
Max AB/AC/Spellpower in many cases is inferior to a more rounded better thought-out toon.
And its environment specific.
And we've all been here before. Pass the beers, whose shout is it anyway this time around - I vote the new guy _________________ Workings of a Chaotic-Neutral mind:
Mind to Subconscious: Sir! Host is being asked to read the rules! Subconscious to Mind: But theres pr0n to watch! Mind to Subconscious: Happy to report Host has beaten us to it! Subconscious to Mind: We ROCK!
Quote: Posted 05/05/10 23:41 (GMT) -- jumjones
Dont confuse maximum with playability.
Which is why the question of best is so hard to answer. There are thousands of good playable builds, and almost always maximizing one aspect will be at the deterioration of several other critical aspects to a build.
Quote: Posted 05/06/10 01:22 (GMT) -- WhiZard
Quote: Posted 05/05/10 23:41 (GMT) -- jumjones
Dont confuse maximum with playability.
Which is why the question of best is so hard to answer. There are thousands of good playable builds, and almost always maximizing one aspect will be at the deterioration of several other critical aspects to a build.
Perhaps instead of having to post same response to this type of question or same line of questioning... why not have everyone write some detailed explanation about how to decide what is the best that suits the needs that you have and whatnot. AND then put that into one post which will be stickified.
And then everyone can use the link to that sticky post to point that person to read... if I am making any sense... that way, you would have best explanation about how to decide... Of course, examples are a must...
Hopefully I made some sense, I am posting this when I am tired after working 10-12 hour...
Anuis _________________ - Epic Character Builders Guild
- Life is but a dream...
- I know more than I am letting on...
-I think, Therefore I am.
Quick attributes (many factors ignored):
Combat skill: (AB + AC) * Average damage/(1 - concealment%)
Health: HP/(51 - DR(discount DR of power +5 or less))
Saves: Fort + Reflex + Will + 3/2 saves vs. spells + 1/2 saves vs. traps
Insta-death power of spell: DC * (Penetration: use 31 if none apply) * (Number of castings with a max of 10 (for infinite casts)) /(Number of immunities that block)
Quote: Posted 05/05/10 19:47 (GMT) -- WhiZard
Cleric 40 with SoV and Implosion for speed, however Wizards and Sorcerors can hold out longer with spell mantles and tend to be the more dangerous.
Against another caster, Sorcerer or Wizard with Time Stop + Maximized Missile Storm could kill the fastest (as you don't even need to close to Implosion/Harm range)
Quote: Posted 05/05/10 19:47 (GMT) -- WhiZard
Higher AC from druid 18, wizard 21, monk 1 in Dragon shape with epic mage armor. Out of that shape it can cast level 9 druid and wizard spells.
Dragon Shape:
41 base 15 from EMA 2 from armor skin 8 from tumble 20 from wisdom
94 total
Bard/SD/PM
10 base 19 from dex 8 from tumble 2 from armor skin 3 from tower shield 4 from haste 14 from PM
60 total
If you had +5 armor/shield/deflection/natural/dodge, you'd have 85. +6 to each is 90 but Dragon Shape goes up to 91. +7 or better and the advantage is the Bard/SD/PM's. Of course, in a +5 environment, a level 16 bard song will tie the two and PDK shield and/or any Dodge AC will help regardless, as Dragon Shape is Dodge capped.
You'd have to have a base HP of 400 (if we're counting the temporary HP) to be higher. 18 druid levels gives 144 hp, leaving 256 to be made up. If you did something like 18 druid/22 barbarian you'd get 264...except then it's not possible to get all 10 Epic Toughness feats. So Fighter/DD (or Fighter/Barbarian) wins, even counting the 100 temp HP bonus.
Quote: Posted 05/06/10 02:20 (GMT) -- Anuis
Perhaps instead of having to post same response to this type of question or same line of questioning... why not have everyone write some detailed explanation about how to decide what is the best that suits the needs that you have and whatnot. AND then put that into one post which will be stickified.
You'd have to have a base HP of 400 (if we're counting the temporary HP) to be higher. 18 druid levels gives 144 hp, leaving 256 to be made up. If you did something like 18 druid/22 barbarian you'd get 264...except then it's not possible to get all 10 Epic Toughness feats. So Fighter/DD (or Fighter/Barbarian) wins, even counting the 100 temp HP bonus.
Constitution is off by 2 as a dwarf can in the presense of a total of +12 constitution buffs, shift and retain the bonus HP from racial +2 cons. (40 HP there) further you discount a shifter build such as dwarven druid 5/shifter 10/DD 25. (60 base HP less than max). So dragon shape with temporary hit points ties for the most HP, however it does have a the highest average if you were not maxing a HP die rolls.
Higher AC from druid 18, wizard 21, monk 1 in Dragon shape with epic mage armor. Out of that shape it can cast level 9 druid and wizard spells.
Dragon Shape:
41 base 15 from EMA 2 from armor skin 8 from tumble 20 from wisdom
94 total
You misadded and forgot dex buffs. You should have
8 base (10 + huge size penalty) 18 from dex base 36(+11 dex from druid and wizard buffs) 20 dodge 18 from wis base 34(+12 wis from druid and wizard buffs) 15 EMA 2 Armor Skin 8 tumble 10 improved expertise ----- 99 AC
Yes almost any build can get higher with good equipment, but even the 19 bonus of dex you have in your build is beyond scroll UMD and assumes equipment.
Edited By WhiZard on 05/06/10 14:40
Quote: Posted 05/06/10 05:21 (GMT) -- FinneousPJ
Quote: Posted 05/06/10 02:20 (GMT) -- Anuis
Perhaps instead of having to post same response to this type of question or same line of questioning... why not have everyone write some detailed explanation about how to decide what is the best that suits the needs that you have and whatnot. AND then put that into one post which will be stickified.
Already done: Click Here
Finn that is a great post. I used it so long ago to learn what you masters were doing! It made learning soo much easier. Today, it seems everyone wants a quick fix. Unfortuately, there cant be. It all comes down to how you play. Anything else is silence...
Quote:
Quote: The best damage Physical, Counting everything that could increase damage, gear is non important because in a +1 world everyone just get +1 damage while in a +20 world everyone gets +20. The highest damage template will still do the highest damage (I think).
Rogue 39/Assassin 1 with ISA X.
I was pretty sure a Weapon Master scythe's critical on Smite Evil with maxed Great Smiting had won that contest, Kail made one of those: Holy Reaper /Paladin 15/CoT 18/WM 7, and links to others are on his build, ridiculous damage output there. _________________ "My name is Thaxll'ssyllia, but you simians may refer to me merely as "Sir", if you prefer a less... syllable intensive workout."
Edwin Odesseiron - Baldur's Gate II: Shadows of Amn
Edited By Thaxll'ssyllia on 05/06/10 19:04
Quote: Posted 05/06/10 13:53 (GMT) -- WhiZard
Constitution is off by 2 as a dwarf can in the presense of a total of +12 constitution buffs, shift and retain the bonus HP from racial +2 cons.
I'm not entirely sure what you're saying. If you shift into dragon form as a dwarf, you get a new base con of 32 from Dragon Shape. Are you saying there's a bug where if you have +12 con from buffs the engine gives you an extra 2 bonus?
Quote: Posted 05/06/10 13:53 (GMT) -- WhiZard
(40 HP there) further you discount a shifter build such as dwarven druid 5/shifter 10/DD 25. (60 base HP less than max). So dragon shape with temporary hit points ties for the most HP, however it does have a the highest average if you were not maxing a HP die rolls.
No, it still doesn't. That build gets 10 epic bonus feats. You need 3 great wisdoms and dragon shape, leaving 4. Meaning you can only get Epic Toughness VI, so you lose 80 hp that way.
Quote: Posted 05/06/10 14:33 (GMT) -- WhiZard
You misadded and forgot dex buffs. You should have
8 base (10 + huge size penalty) 18 from dex base 36(+11 dex from druid and wizard buffs) 20 dodge 18 from wis base 34(+12 wis from druid and wizard buffs) 15 EMA 2 Armor Skin 8 tumble 10 improved expertise ----- 99 AC
Dex should be 19, not 18, and you'd only need 1 point of dex from gear to get it.
Improved Expertise doesn't count since both builds get it. But what the hell, let's count it for 100 total.
That gives us a base of 70 for the bard/SD/PM, then. +5 gear gives 95 AC, buffable with Mage Armor/Bard Song/PDK Shield/etc. +6 gear gives us 100 (and Dragon Shape goes to 101, though Mage Armor evens them out from a scroll).
You also have Shadow Evade (+4 AC) for 15 rounds per day.
Quote: Posted 05/06/10 14:33 (GMT) -- WhiZard
Yes almost any build can get higher with good equipment, but even the 19 bonus of dex you have in your build is beyond scroll UMD and assumes equipment.
Assuming no equipment is as bad as assuming +20 equipment.
And all of this is assuming entirely default rules.
41 base 15 from EMA 2 from armor skin 8 from tumble 20 from wisdom
94 total
That's 86 total, 94 needs capped Dex and 10+ Monk lvls which are not indicated in the AC break down. _________________ They can't stop us Let them try For Heavy Metal We will die
Quote: Posted 05/05/10 18:26 (GMT) -- Primeval Atom
The best Spell Caster Template (with level progression in order for me to build it). I am talking about the Caster who is able to kill other caster, NPC or PC, the faster using his/her spells.
Environment dependant.
Quote: The best AB template simply put the character combination that can achieve the highest AB rating possible. (With level progression in order for me to build it).
Environment dependat.
Quote: Ranged or melee? Buffed or unbuffed?
Melee. Buffed.
Environment dependant
Quote: The best damage
Physical or spells? Counting stuff like smites or not? What level of gear is available?
Physical, Counting everything that could increase damage, gear is non important because in a +1 world everyone just get +1 damage while in a +20 world everyone gets +20. The highest damage template will still do the highest damage (I think).
False, damage output is strictly correlated to environment dependant factors (like AB, crit or sneak immunity, DR, etc).
Quote: The best range I guess this is the best Range template with the highest AB at range.
Environment dependant.
When you specify the environment, you will be able to get more proper answers. And even then, often they won't be definitive ones. _________________ They can't stop us Let them try For Heavy Metal We will die
That's 86 total, 94 needs capped Dex and 10+ Monk lvls which are not indicated in the AC break down.
Indeed. I never passed arithmetic.
Quote: Posted 05/06/10 05:21 (GMT) -- FinneousPJ
Quote: Posted 05/06/10 02:20 (GMT) -- Anuis
Perhaps instead of having to post same response to this type of question or same line of questioning... why not have everyone write some detailed explanation about how to decide what is the best that suits the needs that you have and whatnot. AND then put that into one post which will be stickified.
Already done: Click Here
Bah.. didn't see that.
Anuis _________________ - Epic Character Builders Guild
Fighter 30/DD 10 should be able to get the highest.
19 starting Con, 7 Great Con, 10 Epic Toughness.
Actually no. This is not true. If you do have option to do alignment shift... Barbarian/DD is the best and is the highest HP possible as both gets d12 HP.
Myself, I never ever follow alignment rules...
Anuis _________________ - Epic Character Builders Guild
- Life is but a dream...
- I know more than I am letting on...
-I think, Therefore I am.
Edited By Anuis on 05/07/10 02:38
Just pointing out that the "best" at these various things is most certainly not "uber."
The strongest overall builds will depend heavily on environment. I've got an idea of what I consider to be the strongest overall builds, but it's very heavily biased towards the environment in which I play. Hence, it may be near useless for you. I mean, bard25/fighter5/RDD10 is way up there on my list, but if you're given haste, and imp invis, and better than +5 keen weapons, and whatnot, then it's probably not so uber. Just sayin', if you want something a little more useful than what build has the highest possible HP total, you're going to have to be far more specific. Er... actually, you'll have to be far less specific. Maybe we should just leave it at "what build has the highest AC" and such. At least those questions are answerable. _________________ Sorcerers and bards may also unlearn spells when gaining a level to get rid of a liked spell in favor of a worse one.
Quote: Posted 05/07/10 02:38 (GMT) -- Anuis
Actually no. This is not true. If you do have option to do alignment shift... Barbarian/DD is the best and is the highest HP possible as both gets d12 HP
Except the reason you have 30 fighter levels instead of 30 DD levels is the minimum of 16 feats for Epic Toughness/Great Constitution. 26 Fighter/14 DD could actually pull off 4 extra HP because you only need 6 great cons and 10 epic toughnesses...
Quote: Posted 05/06/10 01:22 (GMT) -- WhiZard
Quote: Posted 05/05/10 23:41 (GMT) -- jumjones
Dont confuse maximum with playability.
Which is why the question of best is so hard to answer. There are thousands of good playable builds, and almost always maximizing one aspect will be at the deterioration of several other critical aspects to a build.
Good point! Here is a build where I max out self buffed AC so it reaches beyond the 100 mark. And it comes at a high price, so I do not want to play it. _________________ I generally avoid temptation, unless I can't resist it...
Actually no. This is not true. If you do have option to do alignment shift... Barbarian/DD is the best and is the highest HP possible as both gets d12 HP
Except the reason you have 30 fighter levels instead of 30 DD levels is the minimum of 16 feats for Epic Toughness/Great Constitution. 26 Fighter/14 DD could actually pull off 4 extra HP because you only need 6 great cons and 10 epic toughnesses...
Then it should be Barbarian 26/Fighter 14 (fighter taken epic).
Edited By WhiZard on 05/07/10 14:31
Indeed.
Great, outdid myself:
Barbarian 29/Ranger 1/Fighter 10. I don't think I can squeeze another hitpoint.
That was for a gain of 2 hp, right? Nice.
Hey,
Well since this seems like a Just for fun topic. I thought I should post this here. I had nothing to do, and so started playing around with the CBC. I wanted to create a character that was the ultimate tank, for both melee fighters and arcane casters. Here is what I came up with:
This "thing" I just gave birth to is not really of any use, just having a little fun, that's all. Tell me your thoughts
Is that it? Starting CON 20 (Dwarf or Gnome) plus 10 stat increases, plus 6 Greater Con is a total of 36 CON and not 34. Am I right? If so, HP should be:
(from Barb) = 348
(from Fighter) = 100
(from Ranger) = 10
(From Toughness) = 40
(From Constitution) = 520
(From Epic Toughness) = 200
Total HP = 1218
Funny. I didnt want to get in on this cuz, well, max hp is so subjective! LOL
take this build, done back before most of us even thought of nwn: (Druid 14/CLC 4/CoT 22) by cdualepp
Now, YES it is illegal by 1.69 standards. It is from 2004 and it was done by, arguably the most influential nwn builder in history ARGUABLY! I say this cuz, by the time most of us were out of our building diapers, cd was retired having built legendary builds, some are still tops today.
The interesting thing is, he doesnt use the same classes AND it has 8 con, to get a wimpy 1344 HP
Unfortunately, i dont see a way to make it legal, cept maybe 4 cleric for 1 ranger(epic toughness), but you come up 1 lvl short for dragon... by loosing cleric you loose 120 hp for 1224. I dont have nwn set up, so i am totally going by my mind, but it could work.
I guess I was not very specific at all 
Funny. I didnt want to get in on this cuz, well, max hp is so subjective! LOL 