Is there a Half-Orc Barbarian/Rogue/SD in the guild? Not by my count. I swear there was a Terrifying Rage HiPSter somewhere, with that class combo. Maybe I'm thinking of Grizz's Heart of Darkness. I can believe that there isn't a Half-Orc, but surely there's a human build, right? Why can't I find it?
Check Anuis' builds. Anything Barbarian has his name all over it! Dont ask me why though
There's this:
which is an halfling, dex based epic dodger. _________________ They can't stop us Let them try For Heavy Metal We will die
But no STR build? Is the distaste for STR based HiPSters that strong? I guess having to spend a feat on heavy armor is a bummer, but from first glance, it seems like it would still be a viable build. Maybe I should build it, then see if there's any great reason it doesn't yet exist.
A quickly whipped up one:
ROGUE(23), BARBARIAN(16), SHADOWDANCER(1) Human, any non lawful
Barbarian 16 is for the Taunt dump and the extra rage/day, if you can postpone TR until lvl 39 then you may want to opt for Rogue 24/Barb 15 for the extra feat and a handful more skillpoints. Half Orc loses too many skillpoints for my taste not to mention one feat for basically just +1 AB/dmg. _________________ They can't stop us Let them try For Heavy Metal We will die
Edited By Kail Pendragon on 06/05/10 21:26
Nice. That's pretty much it. I'd tweak a few thing, but then again, who wouldn't? I especially like how you made medium armor work. The minimal AC loss is likely worth the lower hit to H and MS. Plus, it's really simple to turn it into a Half-Orc (although, yeah, to it's detriment, but such is the case w/ Half-Orcs...).
I noticed you passed on Imp Evasion. Is that just because of the sub-par reflex? I'd think that a 24 would be enough to make it worthwhile (especially as you can assume that he'd be walking around w/ at least a 26). I think I'd give up the ESF: intimidate for that, but that's at least partially an environmental consideration.
Anyways, yup, that will do nicely. W/out access to the CCBC, you just saved me a bunch of middling.
Also, IMO, this is worth officially posting. It may not be a monster, but it's unique enough, and decent enough, to warrant inclusion.
Quote: Posted 06/05/10 21:32 (GMT) -- onion eater
Nice. That's pretty much it. I'd tweak a few thing, but then again, who wouldn't? I especially like how you made medium armor work. The minimal AC loss is likely worth the lower hit to H and MS. Plus, it's really simple to turn it into a Half-Orc (although, yeah, to it's detriment, but such is the case w/ Half-Orcs...).
That's a typical option for STR based stealthers, go medium armor, 14 Dex and then use some Dex enhancing. You lose 1 AC but your skills are not hit that severely.
Quote: I noticed you passed on Imp Evasion. Is that just because of the sub-par reflex?
Sub par reflex actually calls for IE more than a good ref save score (remember IE triggers on a failed save)
Quote: I'd think that a 24 would be enough to make it worthwhile (especially as you can assume that he'd be walking around w/ at least a 26).
I'd say that's environment dependant. I think 24 (as you say veritably 26+ with gear) is generally good enough to pass most saves considering the +9 vs traps and +4 vs spells.
Quote: I think I'd give up the ESF: intimidate for that, but that's at least partially an environmental consideration.
Aye.
Quote: Anyways, yup, that will do nicely. W/out access to the CCBC, you just saved me a bunch of middling.
You are welcome. _________________ They can't stop us Let them try For Heavy Metal We will die
So, what do you think about this build? In standard NWN, it seems alright to me. Maybe nothing special, but about par.
Now, imagine this build was played in an environment that had buffed up TR, say so that it read instead:
"Terrifying Rage - panic effect lasts 4d4 rounds, not 1d3. Gives +d20 to intimidate, not d10. Uses turned effect so creatures run away instead of standing there. Fear immunity prevents effect, not mindspell or paralyzation immunity."
Seems pretty good to me. Maybe not uberest, but more than playable. Thoughts?
I realize I'm pretty much having a conversation with myself here, but...
Seems to me the big knock against this build is the lack of end-game. It gets HiPS, and TR, and that's it as far as specialness. Still, I think HiPS, TR, and a mean SA is pretty decent. Combat vitals aren't impressive, but nor are they much below par. I guess Dev Crit could be worked in there, which would help w/ the end-game. Not that I will, but it makes it look stronger on paper.
Anyhoo... I'm gonna give him a shot sooner or later. I guess I'll see how it works out.
onion, sometimes those are the very best conversations!
On a serious note, i would ask Anuis to give his 2 cents. But if its "end game", then what about loosing Rogue for Barb and pick up the "good" rage feat? (i dont remember nor care which one it is cuz, outside of a build by griz that used 4 barb in a cleric build, i have never used the class on my own)
Quote: Posted 06/07/10 03:58 (GMT) -- avado
onion, sometimes those are the very best conversations!
Sad, but true.
Quote: But if its "end game", then what about loosing Rogue for Barb and pick up the "good" rage feat?
Mighty? In the right environment it has it's uses, but it's not a whole lot to shoot for. That said, it wouldn't take much more to get it, and it does add to the barbaricness. Either way, really. I'm inclined to stick w/ the split here though. I guess in a non-magic environment, it'd be great, but such is rarer than an Iron Elf.
I think it may be Terrifying... though dont hold me to it! I remember a discussion he and I had about a build and how he was getting Dev crit, dragon, and Terrifying rage in a PRC build. Anyway, i asked him if he has input in this one. Maybe he can enlighten us.
Terrifying Rage is already in
Quote: Posted 06/06/10 20:19 (GMT) -- onion eater
So, what do you think about this build? In standard NWN, it seems alright to me. Maybe nothing special, but about par.
Now, imagine this build was played in an environment that had buffed up TR, say so that it read instead:
"Terrifying Rage - panic effect lasts 4d4 rounds, not 1d3. Gives +d20 to intimidate, not d10. Uses turned effect so creatures run away instead of standing there. Fear immunity prevents effect, not mindspell or paralyzation immunity."
Seems pretty good to me. Maybe not uberest, but more than playable. Thoughts?
So it's WoG material I guess. You'll definitely need fear immunity and death magic immunity would be good too. If you are set on half orc you'll have to make choices regarding skills (although you can pump up INT to 16 base, 14 modified to limit the net loss to 43 skillpoints). If you choose to keep Taunt then you will want Barb 16 for the further skilldump, if you drop it then you can go Rogue 24 for the extra feat at the cost of the exrta rage/day. Early TR is pretty much desired on WoG and similarly early HiPS (SD in epic would net you +1 AB but it ain't worth it IMO). You may want to egt Barb 1 at 2nd lvl to get advantage of the extra speed right from the WoG bat.
It's definitely playable, that many rogue levels and SD take care of it. Barb adds some nice extras. What weapon are you planning to use?
Edited By Kail Pendragon on 06/07/10 18:34
I do think I'll take the first barbarian level at level two. The HP boost alone is huge at those levels. The armor profs make it nearly necessary. It delays an extra SA dice a level. I love me some SA die, especially at low levels, but I can push that back for a bit of barb.
Half-Orc is a whole 'nother can of worms. I think it's very likely that I'll talk myself out of using the half-breed, but, just for kicks...
Taunt's gotta go. It's sad, but he's not in an especially good position to taunt (I mean, mechanically, of course, as character-wise...). He's got a sub-par AC, and sub-par HP. Uncanny Dodge is something, but he still doesn't need to be asking for more hits. Plus, when he needs to, he just rages. Sure, I love Taunt, and it's always a shame when you use a class w/ Taunt and don't take it, but them's just the breaks. Besides, there's just not enough left to cut. I can't see investing 10 points into INT, so that's another 43 points to cut, which I think you need to do bit by bit from all the rogueshness. That eliminates the ESF: Taunt, which you can drop for a GRT STR, and drop Prowess for the second GRT STR. The extra rogue bonus feat can happily be more SA, or imp evasion. It's not so bad, but it's clearly inferior. Sigh. Poor Half-Orcs.
I'm thinkin' I gotta make him a Two-Hander. It's rough, as I'm always afraid to play sub-par AC builds on WoG (because it's rough), but I can't see takin the hit to stealth from a shield. He'll obviously carry one, but it won't be the focus.
As to what will, probably Great Axe. That might be a bad choice for WoG, but I've plenty of Halberders, and he just doesn't seem Great Swordish. That said, I don't think I've had a Great Sword wielder on WoG, and there are certainly good Great Swords to be had. Anyways, yeah, two-hander, not scythe. I may even drop WF for a CEP weapon. Those Falchions are always tempting...
You can go with deadly vs epic trap skills and/or cut on the OL, though IMO 16 INT (14 modified) is worth the cost. You can buy 16 INT at the cost of 2 CON and 2 WIS or go for 14 STR (16 modified) and keep epic trap skills.
I wouldn't go for a CEP weapon (I dream about the day we will be able to tak eCEP weapon feats), -3 AB is pretty significant and your mundane AB is nothing special; also, less AB is virtually less AC (you kill your enemies slower hence they hit you more) and protection is already an issue. I would also go weapon and shield and unequip the shield when necessary... -8 AC (eventually) is just huge and even -3 is quite significant. Yet HiPS can take you out of trouble so 2-handed ain't that bad an option as it would be otherwise. Greatsword would be a good choice and not unfitting either.
I would consider Epic Will for your free epic feat slot (after droppin gTaunt and ESF: Taunt) especially if dropping Iron Will preepic due to H.O. vs human. Remember also that if you go for 14 INT (12 modified) you must drop IKD.
ROGUE(23), BARBARIAN(16), SHADOWDANCER(1) Human, any non lawful
[SNIP]
No Devastating Critical? Personally, I wouldn't do any epic skill focuses, except intimidate when in conjunction with TR. That would free you up for several more epic feats, namely devastating critical... unless that's not allowed on whichever the PM this is being used for. If DC is out.. I would suggest more GS for more damage/BAB. Although if it was to be half-orc.. it would be pretty tight.
Anuis _________________ - Epic Character Builders Guild
ROGUE(23), BARBARIAN(16), SHADOWDANCER(1) Human, any non lawful
[SNIP]
No Devastating Critical?
I generally don't go for Dev Crit.
Quote: Personally, I wouldn't do any epic skill focuses, except intimidate when in conjunction with TR. That would free you up for several more epic feats, namely devastating critical...
All but one ESF feats are taken as Rogue bonus feats. ESF Taunt and AS or EP can be dropped to make room for Ov Crit and Dev Crit. Preepic LoH, Iron Will, KD/IKD should be dropped too for PA, Cleave, Great Cleave and IC. Dev Crit (DC= 40) means feat starvation and a lower AC or AB.
Quote: unless that's not allowed on whichever the PM this is being used for. If DC is out.. I would suggest more GS for more damage/BAB. Although if it was to be half-orc.. it would be pretty tight.
At most two more Great Strengths can be taken in place of ESF: Taunt and AS. _________________ They can't stop us Let them try For Heavy Metal We will die
Yah, I hear ya on the AB w/ a CEP weapon. True. He's not in the position to make those sacrifices.
Concerning weapon choice, I figure that the majority of time he'd be looking to take advantage of his stealth investment, and hence, the lack of shield would be worthwhile. For WoG, I'm figuring he's using his HiPS once per round. The shield would come out when constant stealthing was either impossible, or less desirable than the alternative, which, hopefully, would be the minority of occasions.
There's this:
Personally, I wouldn't do any epic skill focuses, except intimidate when in conjunction with TR. That would free you up for several more epic feats, namely devastating critical... unless that's not allowed on whichever the PM this is being used for. If DC is out.. I would suggest more GS for more damage/BAB. Although if it was to be half-orc.. it would be pretty tight.