Hello mighty members of the ECB guild. RL has finally allowed me to play NWN online for a while, although it was for a brief priod of time, since now I'm back at my old situation again. Oh well! During this time I played a really cool build of my own on a very hard PW, where it had all indications it'd fail miserably. The items were terribly imbalanced, all kinds of immunities running around everywhere and I still managed to get it as far as lvl 32. I only stopped there cuz basically I couldn't stand being on a server with a ONCE-A-MONTH logging DM and ZERO rules. Anyway, since I was impressed with the results, I decided to share it with you! I'll post it here first to see what kind of tweaks can be made, although I am pretty sure there isn't much to be done since I thoroughly played it from lvl 1 to 32 with no help, facing all kinds of overpowered enemies and trying out several different strategies.
Ladies and Gents (mostly gents since the ladies don't really give a $*#@ about games ), I present you: Caster Dragon
Druid(28), Monk(2), Champion of Torm(10), Human LN
Plenty of room for change there. Didn't take Discipline cuz the server had a +12 Monk robe with Knockdown immunity. I told you it was BS. And there you could charm all kinds of cool magical beasts with Animal Empathy. I used to walk around with a dominated Manticore (with dispel attacks). How cool is that??
Thoughts anyone?
Take it EZ!
The problems I had with this build were the following: I had to use summons + animal companion for the first levels to be able to get to lvl 16. That meant slow levelling and constant resting / rebuffing. I stayed back and fired call lighnings / empowered call lightnings flamestrikes and Empowered Flamestrikes while my critters did the dirty work for me, leaving the summon to die for the occasional feeding the Animal Companion, at which point I turned on Expertise and tanked the attacs while my companion finished them off.
At lvl 16 I managed to use air elemental shape with expertise to tank while my companion did the killing, so I gave up the summons. Then at 17 I was able to go to a place where earth elementals dwelled. I killed all of them (500 HP) casting one harm on each and leaving them near death for my companion to finish off, then I cast 4 Extended Greases and waited for the rest to come to me in Air elemental shape. I used pulse attack, to try to knock them down then they were on the floor most of the time because their reflex is crap. I managed to lvl up to 23 in that area. As you might have noticed, 22 is the turning point for this build. 58 AC on Water elemental Shape can do wonders for you. My previous AC with the air elemental shape was a mere 43.
From that point on it went smoothly up until lvl 30. Then it took me FOREVER to get that last level before DS and ultimate melee power. My AC / AB in elemental shapes weren't good enough to kill stronger monsters, so I needed to kill A LOT of weaker monsters. Once I got DS I was able to go anywhere I wanted in the server with my 76 AC and 53 AB (chart showed 49 but I know it's bugged). At that point I was really disappointed with the server and just decided it was best to quit while I was ahead. I could've easily gained another 2 lvls at the very least where I last had my character, but I was just so dismotivated I couldn't even do that.
Anyway. I thought about lowering DEX and CON for CHA to get some Divine Wrath bonuses especially to AB while in DS, which this build can't buff other than by raising STR, but it's just so many levels you have to suffer that I decided not to. As a lvl 40 build I would go for Druid 12 CoT 8 pre-epic, with 8 STR 8 DEX, 10 CON and 14 CHA, dropping 2 Great Wisdoms for perhaps Disarm / Improved Disarm or Called shot and AP (Heavy). You gain 1 AB from COT 8 pre-epic and lose 1 AC from lower WIS, but AB like I said is UNBUFFABLE, while for AC you have Monk AC bonus, Owl's Insight, Barkskin, merging armor bonus etc.. Also, I would definitely take Discipline if it wasn't for the Knockdown immunity I mentioned.
What do you think?
Take it EZ!
For reference: The Dragon Druid (Dru 20 / Mnk 10 / CoT 10) -- AntonTD Nature's Spellsword (Dru 24 / Mnk 6 / CoT 10) -- christian.schnabel Christophs Dragon of Torm (Dru 25 / CoT 6 / Mnk 9) -- DaMouse404 Avenging Dragon (Dru 26 / CoT 8 / Mnk 6) -- Ithacan Nature's Wyrm (Dru 30 / CoT 4 / Mnk 6) -- Kail Pendragon Caster Dragon (Dru 23 / Mnk 7 / CoT 10) -- pulse cap Shapeshifting Druid (Dru 26 / Mnk 6 / CoT -- pulse cap
Sorry for the multiple post, but I have to mention this:
This build was heavily inspired by Kail's Nature's Wyrm (Druid 30 Monk 6 CoT 4) and Tattoed Monk's remake of it (Druid 24 Monk 8 CoT . Both are truly great builds, but I just didn't feel right about the Monk 6. Both were spending 4 (TM's spent 6) lvls on Monk for basically KD / IKD and +1 AC in a build that is not at all feat starved. And it wasn't even for playability since Kail went for straight Druid 20 Pre-epic. I can't remember TM's build now and am too lazy to look it up just to make a comment. I know Kail did so cuz he was aiming for the earliest possible DS.
Anyway, this build recovers the lost KD and IKD by dropping the Disarm line and taking them as regular pre-epic feats. Also the 1 AC from Monk 5 is recovered with the rearranging of feats. SF Conjuration means you don't need Maximize Spell, since your main spells aren't maximizable, except for stonehold, which is also empowerable and extendable. The 2 Great Wisdoms you gain compensate the 1 ac from Monk 5. Druid 28 gives you enough caster levels not to have to worry about penetration and also ESF conjuration as a bonus feat. 10 CoT means more epic feats and also better saves overall. All saves over 40 in DS. Anyway, if I do decide to post this, I'll obviously make the appropriate references in the OP, since now I know how to (Thanks onion )!
seen them all dude . All have the same problem: too much monk for my taste
Sorry for multiple post again. People arrived at my house at the exact time I was writing the last post, and it took a lot longer than I thought so I missed the editing deadline. Oh well. Anyway.
Funny you brought these builds up onion, I looked at all of them when I was working on this build. Thing is I know it`s a very common class combo, hell, even NWN wiki makes reference to it. Anyway, I was actually surprised to find out that nobody has actually thought about dropping monk to 2 before. I had honestly expected to see at least one build with the same spread as this one or at least with monk 2 and the same class combo. Kinda like My HOOD build, there were at least 3 builds with the same spread. This however, is unique in that it drops 4 utterly unnecessary monk levels to get a much more balanced and more powerful spread that grants undispellability, better saves, better spell penetration and DCs overall and more epic feats while sacrificing playability for the first 21 levels, but not so much that it's unplayable. That is why I even bothered to post this here, and also why I didn't post it directly on the Epic Builds Forum.
Thoughts about the build itself other than: "there are similar ones"?
Take it EZ!
Edited By Maximillian Kane on 07/03/10 23:20
Well. Expertise isnt really of much importance here, apart from the very first levels I guess. I'd take the spellfocus on lv 1 and pick up weapon finesse instead for some more AB in dex shapes. It really helps.
The spell focus feats are fine I guess, if you use a lot of AoE spells like grease, acid fog and evard's. I'd consider the choice of school, but all boils down to tactics.
On lv 21 you get lv 9 spells, and with that the lovely Shapechange spell. It has some decent additions to your shape selection, like Balor and Slaadi that are among my favourites.
With your insane AC I won't think any defensive epic spells will be of much use for you, so for a serious boom twice a day, those work.
I would not underestimate the power of animal shapes on low levels either. The bear can be mean. Otherwise I guess you can do pretty much everything with this build, even without gear.
The bonus of taking 6 levels of monk is being immune to both poison and disease (not just poison), +20% movespeed (this is nicer than it sounds), +1 AC, free IKD, +2 save vs. mind affecting and if you take 4 of those levels pre-epic you net +2 to all saves I think. Delays casting quite a bit but gains you the monk-goodness earlier, except KD that has to wait, which can be a loss. If you want to take it all out I'd drop Dex to 8 or 10 for Cha to make use of the CoT skills.
Quote: Well. Expertise isnt really of much importance here, apart from the very first levels I guess. I'd take the spellfocus on lv 1 and pick up weapon finesse instead for some more AB in dex shapes. It really helps.
I use Expertise CONSTANTLY in this build not only for those stinky early levels, but also all the way into the epics. Whenever you use a special skill (Dragon Breath, Pulse Attack, Drown) in any of the shapes, you get +5 AC at ZERO COST since you're not attacking. That comes in handy when fighting a Prismatic Dragon in the Training Mod, for instance. You only hit it on 20 so the Dragon Breath actually does more damage per round than your attacks, since the Prismatic Dragon has no evasion. That is one reason why I'd rather take that. Also, I use mostly STR shapes (Bear, Water Elemental, Earth Elemental, Blue Dragon (for RP only, no other reason))
Quote: The spell focus feats are fine I guess, if you use a lot of AoE spells like grease, acid fog and evard's. I'd consider the choice of school, but all boils down to tactics.
Druid don't have Evard's or Acid Fog dude. I get the SF for mainly 4 spells in my tactics: Grease, Stonehold, Creeping Doom and Storm of Vengeance. Many people underestimate the power of an area with 4 Grease spells and you walking around it at full speed, since you're immune to it. You can EASILY gather a bunch of monsters together to use your other AoE spells. It was dreadfully useful for killing vampires. On the PW I played, one single Mass Heal killed them all.
Grease is the reason I don't really miss the Monk Speed. I get that anyway by casting it and being immune to it, any extra is just redundant. If you know when to use it (basically against low-reflex monsters), Grease can be quite effective, despite being a Level 1 spell. The reflex save is made only for the knockdown effect. Anyone not immune to it is still slowed. Freedom doesn't stop you from getting knocked down if you fail the save.
Quote: On lv 21 you get lv 9 spells, and with that the lovely Shapechange spell. It has some decent additions to your shape selection, like Balor and Slaadi that are among my favourites.
Shapechange is allright, but unlike your Elemental Shapes, nothing merges on the shift, so if you (like me) are permanently hasted by then (in my case with a helm), it becomes less effective and more of a bother. If not then yeah, definitely useful
Quote: With your insane AC I won't think any defensive epic spells will be of much use for you, so for a serious boom twice a day, those work.
You don't get any defensive Epic Spells, dude, I think you're mistaking Druid for Wizard, given this comment and the one about Evard's and Acid Fog. It's either these two or Mummy Dust and Dragon Knight. I heard that in some environments, both summoning epic spells have been significantly beefed up. If so you may wanna choose Dragon Knight instead of Hellball, just for the RP coolness of a Dragon Duo.
Quote: I would not underestimate the power of animal shapes on low levels either. The bear can be mean. Otherwise I guess you can do pretty much everything with this build, even without gear.
Your affirmative WOULD BE right, except you're thinking animal shapes with the Monk AC bonus, which this build doesn't get until lvl 22. You SHOULD NEVER SHIFT to a Bear shape with 19 AC unless you're 1 on 1 with a monster you can knock down. TRUST ME ON THAT!! I died COUNTLESS times doing this. Nobody misses ONE SINGLE ATTACK on you . From level 22 on you can shift to Bear shape at will and save up the Elemental Shapes for bosses and tougher foes.
Quote: The bonus of taking 6 levels of monk is being immune to both poison and disease (not just poison), +20% movespeed (this is nicer than it sounds), +1 AC, free IKD, +2 save vs. mind affecting and if you take 4 of those levels pre-epic you net +2 to all saves I think. Delays casting quite a bit but gains you the monk-goodness earlier, except KD that has to wait, which can be a loss. If you want to take it all out I'd drop Dex to 8 or 10 for Cha to make use of the CoT skills.
About Monk 6, what I concede it does is grant MUCH more playability allowing you to have WIS bonus to AC on your shifts from lvl 6 on. That's it, as for the rest I will say this:
Being immune to disease is worthless, I have the Heal skill maxed out. If some monster manages to disease me, I'll finish killing it and then use a Healing Kit. Been there, done that.
+2 to all saves - You also get that from CoT 10. If you go Druid 24 CoT 10 you become dispellable and lose ESF. So to keep my 28 levels of Druid I'd need to drop 4 CoT and therefore lose +2 to all saves and 2 Bonus Feats. Redundant at the very least, if not worse.
+2 to mind Spells - Really? You have 46 Buffed Wis and an all-time high will already, I don't think I'll ever need that bonus since I only fail will saves on a 1 anyway.
+20% Movespeed - Good but not worth taking 4 levels for it. I'd rather take 4 CoT for +2 Epic Bonus Feats and +2 to saves.
+1 AC - You get that by taking 2 Great Wisdoms on the CoT Bonus Feats, but the WIS also grants you more spell slots and +1 to your spell DCs
I tend to agree with you about dropping Dex for CHA to get the VERY GOOD bonuses of Divine Wrath. However, I chose not to, like I said, because playability would be much worse in the first 21 lvls. And you'd get Divine Wrath for 2 rounds once a day unless you managed to find a CHA-enhancing Armor / Helm / Shield. Even with Capped CHA it'd be only 8 Rounds. I prefer the extra AC in Caster Form and the early playability.
Anyway, like I said, I have thoroughly played this build and tried out several different strategies, so I doubt anyone will be able to point out something I have missed. But anyway, thanks for your input. I hope my reply clarifies the reasoning behind my choices, whether they suit your style or not . If you want 6 monk, pick one of the builds onion posted above and play it !
Take it EZ!
Edited By Maximillian Kane on 07/04/10 19:44
Heya, just finished building this on my Training Module, so I'll give ya a few of the DS unbuffed and buffed stats for you to compare.
Unbuffed DS Stats:
AB: 50 AC: 65 (says the Character sheet, is it right?) HP: 880/780 Saves (Fort/Ref/Will): 40/37/38
Fully Buffed DS Stats with no items:
AB: 56 AC: 77 (says the Character sheet, is it right?) HP: 1000/900 Saves (Fort/Ref/Will): 43/39/45
Fully Buffed DS Stats with good +5 items:
AB: 56 AC: 83 (says the Character sheet, is it right?) HP: 1000/900 Saves (Fort/Ref/Will): 43/39/45
Pretty cool stats IMO, but I know all Dragon builds get those. Anyway, if you can get a friend to cast Improved Invisibility and Spell Mantle on your Sequencer Robe you'll be pretty impossible to hit. Anyway, the reason for asking if the AC is correct on the Character sheet is because I know the AB isn't.
Take it EZ!
The AC figure does not take in account the size modifier (-2 for Dragon Shape).
Drop improved knockdown, you are already the largest shape there is, so I believe there is no extra benefit. I havent tested it, I vaguely recall a discussion on this though.
I like 6 monk. the extra 20% speed is great, and indeed I usually go to 9 monk to make it 30%, and snap up improved evasion .. i refuse to play on servers without perma-haste, i aint got all day to slog around the countryside
On your specific build .. nothing terribly new at all .. its a straight up caster druid, with DS as a perk. I think its actually stronger as a caster than at melee, and most cases I play it that way. Only change to DS once I have made full use of spells. Thats based on the mid-magic environments that I prefer to play on.
You do give a good dissection of the build though, anyone newish to the game (!!!!) will find it useful. _________________ Workings of a Chaotic-Neutral mind:
Mind to Subconscious: Sir! Host is being asked to read the rules! Subconscious to Mind: But theres pr0n to watch! Mind to Subconscious: Happy to report Host has beaten us to it! Subconscious to Mind: We ROCK!
Quote: Posted 07/04/10 23:15 (GMT) -- jumjones
Drop improved knockdown, you are already the largest shape there is, so I believe there is no extra benefit. I havent tested it, I vaguely recall a discussion on this though.
The engine recognizes sizes beyond huge and hence IKD will grant the usual benefits.
Quote: I like 6 monk. the extra 20% speed is great, and indeed I usually go to 9 monk to make it 30%, and snap up improved evasion .. i refuse to play on servers without perma-haste, i aint got all day to slog around the countryside
Well in this build's specific case, Improved Evasion is unnecessary. Saves are so high that in most if not all cases you'll only fail on a 1. Your buffed saves are 43 / 37 / 45, not to mention you have 40 SR, +8 on saves vs Spells from Spellcraft and are undispellable. So the 5% of the time you'll actually take some damage on a reflex save are definitely not worth 7 Monk levels, nor is the 30% speed bonus, especially with how much it screws with either your casting power or your saves / epic bonus feats.
Quote: On your specific build .. nothing terribly new at all .. its a straight up caster druid, with DS as a perk. I think its actually stronger as a caster than at melee, and most cases I play it that way. Only change to DS once I have made full use of spells. Thats based on the mid-magic environments that I prefer to play on.
That actually depends on what monsters you're facing. Certain monsters will die easily with your spells, while others will go down more smoothly if you beat the crap out of them. Sometimes a different shape is better according to the situation. As an example, most undead, such as Mummies will die MUCH FASTER against a Fire Elemental because of their vulnerability to fire damage, but Water Elemental shape is the best option most of the time before you get DS. Perma-haste is a must at least after level 20. Before that you're just too weak and the bonus is just too great .
Quote: You do give a good dissection of the build though, anyone newish to the game (!!!!) will find it useful.
Thanks, although it'll be hard to find those in the ECB guild. But there are many people who are experts in a few classes and combos and when they get bored they decide to try different classes without proper knowledge. I know a few people who have never paid much attention to Druids and are great builders. Cinnabar and Avado come to mind.
Quote: The AC figure does not take in account the size modifier (-2 for Dragon Shape).
So I stand corrected. That is one thing that I didn't know about in this build, thanks for clearing it out for me.
Drop improved knockdown, you are already the largest shape there is, so I believe there is no extra benefit. I havent tested it, I vaguely recall a discussion on this though.
The engine recognizes sizes beyond huge and hence IKD will grant the usual benefits.
That I was aware of, and that's why I didn't get Called Shot instead. Can't think of another feat to take there, since Disarm without Improved Disarm isn't all that great..
Anyway, do you think I should post this or should I just leave it alone?
The AC figure does not take in account the size modifier (-2 for Dragon Shape).
This also applies to AB, I would test it in combat and see what the rolls tell you, because the character sheet lies a lot on this.
Side note: IC:unarmed works while shifted, if you want to up your damage a wee little bit. WF: unarmed does not.
Second side note: Yeah, I probably did a lot of wrongs in my feedback, I was bored and tired and did not really look too deep into things. Also I don't play druids much.
The AC figure does not take in account the size modifier (-2 for Dragon Shape).
This also applies to AB...
Yes and the AB figure suffers also from uncorrectly showing WF/EWF:unarmed applying (in case one has those feats of course) and not showing the +6 enchantment of dragon claws (while the bite doesn't have any enchantment bonus).
The AC figure does not take in account the size modifier (-2 for Dragon Shape).
This also applies to AB...
Yes and the AB figure suffers also from uncorrectly showing WF/EWF:unarmed applying (in case one has those feats of course) and not showing the +6 enchantment of dragon claws (while the bite doesn't have any enchantment bonus).
I know how the AB works. You basically gotta add +4 to the number you see in your sheet (+6 from Dragon Claws, -2 from Huge Size), and I am aware WF and EWF unarmed don't work, that is why I didn't get them. Also, I must point out that the 56 AB I noted this build has is the correct amount.
AB is easy to test, just hit a dummy on the Training Mod and look at the combat log, but how the hell do you test AC?? As far as I know there is no way to do it effectively, since in the "Halls of Advanced Training" there are no dummies that hit you with a certain pre-established AB, right? Anyone know of a way?
Also, Kail, you haven't answered me, should I post this or do you think it doesn't have enough originality to deserve its own topic?
Take it EZ!
Edited By Maximillian Kane on 07/05/10 15:03
If math fails you, most training modules have monster areas. Just spawn up some with a high AB and have them hit at you until you find someone not in need of 20 to land a blow. If that still fails, rig up with a friend online or two computers.
If math fails you, most training modules have monster areas. Just spawn up some with a high AB and have them hit at you until you find someone not in need of 20 to land a blow. If that still fails, rig up with a friend online or two computers.
If math fails you, most training modules have monster areas. Just spawn up some with a high AB and have them hit at you until you find someone not in need of 20 to land a blow. If that still fails, rig up with a friend online or two computers.
The maths should get your numbers however.
Doesn't combat debugging show your AC?
Here comes another stupid question... What is Combat Debugging?
What I do to find out what the AB is is this: I look at the attack rolls from the combat log, which show something like this: X attacks Y "hit": 19 + 61 = 80
Then you look at all attacks in the round. The highest number on the second column (+61 in the above case) is your AB.
Now when the monster attacks you, say that he hits on a 19 too, although all my builds so far have ACs that none of the monsters manage to hit on numbers other than 20s. Again, X attacks Y "hit": 17 + 60 = 77. All you can find out is that your AC is equal to or lower than 77, but you can't know FOR SURE unless BY SHEER LUCK some other monster attack roll adds up to 76 and misses, which would pinpoint that your AC is EXACTLY 77. Of course for that you'd have to fight for aeons and compare the lower total with which it hits and the higher total with which it misses and even so it could be off since by then some buffs may have expired by then. I wanted to know if there was another way to do this more precisely and easily.
Since we're at it, there is also another couple of doubts I have. NWNWiki shows the AC of a Prismatic Dragon being 70, which I hit with relative ease, since most of my builds have over 60 AB. However, I was missing on too many attacks, and with some characters only hitting on a 20 so I started paying close attention. I noticed he cast the following spell or special hability: "Prismatic Dragon is surrounded by a shield of Shimmering Light, which at first I thought was Epic Mage Armor, but if it were EMA it'd be undispellable, and when I cast Mord's on him, sometimes it dispels that shield. Even then, The combat logs have led me to think that its AC is 74 (using the above mentioned method) instead of the 70 published on NWNwiki. So my 2 questions to anyone who might know are:
1- Is NWNWiki wrong?
2- What the hell is that Shield of Shimmering Light, if not Epic Mage Armor?
Take it EZ!
Quote: Posted 07/05/10 14:43 (GMT) -- Maximillian Kane
The AC figure does not take in account the size modifier (-2 for Dragon Shape).
This also applies to AB...
Yes and the AB figure suffers also from uncorrectly showing WF/EWF:unarmed applying (in case one has those feats of course) and not showing the +6 enchantment of dragon claws (while the bite doesn't have any enchantment bonus).
I know how the AB works. You basically gotta add +4 to the number you see in your sheet (+6 from Dragon Claws, -2 from Huge Size), and I am aware WF and EWF unarmed don't work, that is why I didn't get them. Also, I must point out that the 56 AB I noted this build has is the correct amount.
AB is easy to test, just hit a dummy on the Training Mod and look at the combat log, but how the hell do you test AC?? As far as I know there is no way to do it effectively, since in the "Halls of Advanced Training" there are no dummies that hit you with a certain pre-established AB, right? Anyone know of a way?
Also, Kail, you haven't answered me, should I post this or do you think it doesn't have enough originality to deserve its own topic?
Take it EZ!
Use combat debugging.
In the talk window type:
##DebugMode 1 ##dm_enablecombatdebugging 1
this way the server message window will show all the relevant attack roll and AC modifiers
when done, to exit debug mode type:
##DebugMode 0
exiting debug mode is needed if you want to save your game and not get any problem.
Go ahead and post the build once you feel ok with it, don't forget referencing the similar ones.
The AC figure does not take in account the size modifier (-2 for Dragon Shape).
This also applies to AB...
Yes and the AB figure suffers also from uncorrectly showing WF/EWF:unarmed applying (in case one has those feats of course) and not showing the +6 enchantment of dragon claws (while the bite doesn't have any enchantment bonus).
I know how the AB works. You basically gotta add +4 to the number you see in your sheet (+6 from Dragon Claws, -2 from Huge Size), and I am aware WF and EWF unarmed don't work, that is why I didn't get them. Also, I must point out that the 56 AB I noted this build has is the correct amount.
AB is easy to test, just hit a dummy on the Training Mod and look at the combat log, but how the hell do you test AC?? As far as I know there is no way to do it effectively, since in the "Halls of Advanced Training" there are no dummies that hit you with a certain pre-established AB, right? Anyone know of a way?
Also, Kail, you haven't answered me, should I post this or do you think it doesn't have enough originality to deserve its own topic?
Take it EZ!
Use combat debugging.
In the talk window type:
##DebugMode 1 ##dm_enablecombatdebugging 1
this way the server message window will show all the relevant attack roll and AC modifiers
when done, to exit debug mode type:
##DebugMode 0
exiting debug mode is needed if you want to save your game and not get any problem.
Go ahead and post the build once you feel ok with it, don't forget referencing the similar ones.
This is AWESOME!!! Now I know pretty much everything about AC both mine and from the monsters! Thanks SO MUCH!
I will post the better version of this which is the one with no dexterity and more charisma soon. Also this was a very specific build for my PW. I will post a better skill distribution that will work in all environments. Basically what this means is swapping certain maxed out skills for others. I will take Discipline and Listen for Lore and Heal to fit those environments where there is no immunity to knockdown and where True Seeing gives bonuses to Listen and Spot instead of actually allowing you to automatically see stuff. Then you gotta drop Persuade and go for Heal 28 to help out early on. I've already done it both on paper and on the Training mod, now I gotta add it to the CBC and post it.
The AC figure does not take in account the size modifier (-2 for Dragon Shape).
This also applies to AB, I would test it in combat and see what the rolls tell you, because the character sheet lies a lot on this.
Side note: IC:unarmed works while shifted, if you want to up your damage a wee little bit. WF: unarmed does not.
Second side note: Yeah, I probably did a lot of wrongs in my feedback, I was bored and tired and did not really look too deep into things. Also I don't play druids much.
Just saw this: I get IC Unarmed at lvl 18 with the CoT bonus Feat. Look again .
If you don't play Druids much then maybe you should try them out. They're really fun to play with. This one is fun after lvl 22, before it's a pain in the ***
Take it EZ!
Quote: Posted 07/08/10 15:56 (GMT) -- Maximillian Kane They're really fun to play with. This one is fun after lvl 22, before it's a pain in the ***
Take it EZ!
I don't agree. Even without monk I've never had too much trouble leveling Caster-Druids like this one. With a buffed animal and buffed yourself you got both melee and Casting covered even without the monk AC. _________________ We are sons of Odin, and the fire that we burn inside is the legacy of warrior-kings who reign above in the sky I will lead the charge, my sword into the wind Sons of Odin fights to die and live again
Quote: Posted 07/09/10 00:15 (GMT) -- Grimnir77
Quote: Posted 07/08/10 15:56 (GMT) -- Maximillian Kane They're really fun to play with. This one is fun after lvl 22, before it's a pain in the ***
Take it EZ!
I don't agree. Even without monk I've never had too much trouble leveling Caster-Druids like this one. With a buffed animal and buffed yourself you got both melee and Casting covered even without the monk AC.
Then you haven't played on the PW that I played. From low level monsters, say mercenaries, which you could kill at lvl 11 or so, you'd be taking 20-25 damage per hit. Your stoneskin would last for one fight with 2 or 3 attackers, even if your animal took half the damage. The problem is your shifted AC is too low. it's EXACTLY 19 until lvl 12, then 23 until lvl 16, and that number is with Barkskin already included. That makes it nearly impossible to win a fight against multiple opponents in melee combat, at least where I played.
What I used to do was tell my animal companion to hold, then cast a couple of Grease spells on the way, then advance and summon up all the mercenaries, retreat through the Grease path and bombard them wit Call Lightning and Empowered Call Lightning, because they'd be slowed and so they'd be closer together. then I'd tell my companion to attack and shift just to finish off the leftovers. It took my entire spellbook to kill off one wave. Then rest and repeat.
After these monsters were too low level to award me any serious XP (around lvl 15), I went on to kill Giant Spiders, and they had Death Attack. Before I could even think of killing them, I had to gather enough gold to get my AC up to nearly 45, because it was just too hard. There were around 40 plus the Queen Spider (which had permanent haste and could cast Globe of Invulnerability and Greater Stoneskin), not to mention all the spiders had immunity to paralysis, so my School of Choice spells were kinda worthless, except for Grease, but since Reflex was their highest save, it would only slow them. I managed to find a little bug that helped me out A LOT here. If I cast Grease on the Queen just as I entered the area, I could stop her from casting her spells, and therefore kill her. It would take me 2, sometimes 3 rests to clean out the area. Thankfully, these spiders wouldn't leave their cave as a general rule, although the Queen did follow me outside once when I cast Creeping Doom inside and left to see if they would die. Bad idea, I tell ya.
Anyway, After I got Elemental Shape, it became much easier, because whatever I couldn't kill with my spells while the summoned elemental and my Animal Companion were getting killed, I could shift to Air Elemental shape (43 AC with Expertise) and finish off. Those things had A LOT of HP. I think over 400, and the Queen had over 600. But by then I already had 3 Firestorms and 5 Empowered Call Lightnings to deal with them.
Then I went on to kill Earth Elementals (500HP), with the Harm tactics. I levelled SO FAST in that area, it was ridiculous. I had 6 Harms, and there were 8 Earth Elementals in the whole area. I would kill the first 6 as quickly as possible and then the other 2 would take forever, but were doable with the rest of my spellbook. Then I reached lvl 23 and from that point on my MAIN PROBLEM was the AB. Even in Water Elemental shape, I would only hit on my first 2 attacks in each round against Stingers, but being immune to poison made it easy enough. Throughout THE ENTIRE BUILD, my Animal Companion had better AB than I did. Up until I got DS at lvl 31. That made me be the tanker most of the time while the animal killed off the monsters. It's not that I couldn't kill them, but while I did 16-20 damage per hit and hit on 2 or 3 attacks per round, my bear would do 30 and 70 on a critical hit and hit on 2 attacks per round.
After that I went on to kill Vampires. Those were easy enough, since I had Mass Heal, but once I was out of those, It'd take forever to kill one. Their AB and AC were kinda low, but their damage was around 60 each time they managed to hit me. I, on the other had, would hit them on 5 attacks per round, but doing 12-16 damage each. They had almost 700 HP each, so getting surrounded was not a good idea even if they did miss most of the time.
When I say it was a pain in the ***, I don't mean not doable, what I mean is you can't find a way to consistently kill monsters without depleting your spellbook. So you had to rest pretty much every one or two areas you cleaned out, which is annoying as hell when you are exploring and don't know the world. Also, I would be very reluctant to explore much because I was afraid I would die and lose all the progress I had made XP-wise or wouldn't be able to find a place to rest, and therefore be stuck somewhere. On that evil server, if you died JUST ONCE from lvl 11 on, you'd lose all the XP from that level and had to do it all over again. Just to illustrate how frustrating it was, I'll tell you the following story:
There was a cave that was named "Mysterious Cave" (translating from Portuguese, since it was a Brazilian PW), which was sort of low level area (It was located near a goblin encampment). It had 6 parts, full of all kinds of monsters. There were Goblins, Hobgoblins, Elite Goblins, Goblin Mages, Trolls, Troll Mages, Troll Berserkers, Ogres, Ogre Mages, Ogre Berserkers, Minotaurs, Minotaur Mages, Minotaur Berserkers, a Minotaur Boss and an Ogre Boss and on top of that POISONOUS GAS from part 4 on (I didn't know that until after this had happened). I was almost levelling up, so I was exploring around very carefully, but I was sick of going back and forth between parts 1 and 2, so I decided to go to part 3, which was kind of easy, so I got confident and decided to try to explore all the parts of that cave. Then I entered Part 4, which had the gas. Unless you had ABILITY DECREASE IMMUNITY, your Constitution would drop to 3 (-4) and you'd receive acid damage every round. My total HP halved, I quickly went back to the previous area, but surely, hit the spawning trigger. Some monsters followed me back to the previous area, where I also activated the trigger. Needless to say I died. It was A PAIN IN THE *** to get ALL THE WAY back there and recover my remains. Took me forever! Not to mention going back to the beginning of the level XP-wise. After that I had to be VERY DISCIPLINED not to try and explore that cave again, going back and forth between areas 1, 2 and 3.
That is what I mean by a pain in the ***. After level 22, if I happened to die, I had the means to go back to wherever it was that I perished and get my remains back without too much trouble. So, although it was very frustrating to go back to the beginning of the level, it was not that much because I could easily recover whatever XP I had lost.
That's all folks! Sorry, I got carried away. Damn, I talk too much!
), I present you: Caster Dragon
. All have the same problem: too much monk for my taste 